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Thread: Article: Roster Shuffle: Twins Add Guerrier, What's Next?

  1. #141
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonestar View Post
    It's not their fault that all 4 OF's are on the DL at the same time.

    It is their fault that they went with Bartlett and 3 catchers and 3 shortstops that they were stuck starting Escobar in the OF with no OF on the bench and Parmelee a phone call away -- a phone call that was not made.
    The Bartlett decision is still having repercussions. Keep Bartlett, lose Presley, lose Bartlett, sign Fuld, but lose Mastro. Now both Hicks and Fuld are on the concussion DL and who knows who will be playing CF in Comerica Park if Hicks isn't good to go (and Hicks being good to go isn't a particularly good thing).

    I have defended Gardy's reluctance to DH his only backup catcher, but if the third catcher is Chris Herrmann, it weakens the bench too much. Chris Herrmann should be DFAed. I doubt anyone would claim him, and if he were claimed they have a right handed version of him at Rochester. Dan Rohlfing has Herrmann's skills and can legitimately play first base.

    The 13-pitcher issue needs to be dealt with. If the Twins go with Santana at short, they will have two versatile players in reserve in Escobar and Nunez. Add Hicks/Fuld and the alternate catcher and it's not a bad bench, but of course that would require a) a bullpen arm shedded. b) both Fuld and Hicks spend the minimum time on the concussion DL.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by teekz View Post
    Parmelee is not on the 40 man roster. A corresponding move would have to be made. I'd prefer to see him hit in AAA for another month to prove what he is doing now is legit anyway.
    This was not an impediment. Willingham could have been 60-dayed.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by teekz View Post
    Parmelee is not on the 40 man roster. A corresponding move would have to be made. I'd prefer to see him hit in AAA for another month to prove what he is doing now is legit anyway.
    Quite frankly, even if what he's doing isn't "legit", I fail to see how it wouldn't be a huge upgrade over anyone we've had in the OF for the last month who isn't named Jason Kubel. Parmelee isn't the best outfielder, but put him next to Herrmann or Colabello or Escobar and he's going to look like a perennial gold glove winner. And even if he comes up here and flops entirely, he still can't be a worse bat option than Florimon, Herrmann, etc.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Guerrier wasn't on the 40 man either. The spot they opened for Guerrier could have been used on Parmelee. What possible pressing need was there to vet Guerrier up?
    The pressing need was keeping a promise, apparently. Parmelee was the obvious move- last Sunday evening...and they could have 60-dayed Willingham, which it sounds like they're going to do eventually, anyway.

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  6. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    The Bartlett decision is still having repercussions. Keep Bartlett, lose Presley, lose Bartlett, sign Fuld, but lose Mastro. Now both Hicks and Fuld are on the concussion DL and who knows who will be playing CF in Comerica Park if Hicks isn't good to go (and Hicks being good to go isn't a particularly good thing).

    I have defended Gardy's reluctance to DH his only backup catcher, but if the third catcher is Chris Herrmann, it weakens the bench too much. Chris Herrmann should be DFAed. I doubt anyone would claim him, and if he were claimed they have a right handed version of him at Rochester. Dan Rohlfing has Herrmann's skills and can legitimately play first base.

    The 13-pitcher issue needs to be dealt with. If the Twins go with Santana at short, they will have two versatile players in reserve in Escobar and Nunez. Add Hicks/Fuld and the alternate catcher and it's not a bad bench, but of course that would require a) a bullpen arm shedded. b) both Fuld and Hicks spend the minimum time on the concussion DL.
    And Gardy shot himself in the foot on this issue yet again today. 5 RPs used up in 3.2 innings pitched

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  8. #146
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    The pressing need was keeping a promise, apparently. Parmelee was the obvious move- last Sunday evening...and they could have 60-dayed Willingham, which it sounds like they're going to do eventually, anyway.
    The report I saw yesterday was that Willingham swung pain-free yesterday. A 60-day DL stint would keep Hammer out until June 5th or something like that. In response to another point made here, just using a reliever doesn't disable him for a day or two if they don't throw too many pitches. The best example is the closer. Perkins is usually available at least three days in a row for an inning only. Under that criteria, perhaps all of the relievers used today would be available tomorrow. If 20 pitches is the cutoff, Guerrier wouldn't be available, but everyone else would.

  9. #147
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuluthFan View Post
    I think everyone's complaining about the front office handling of the outfield situation when it is not their fault. Look, the Twins have lost their ENTIRE starting outfield plus their 4th outfielder to the DL. All 4 outfielders are on the DL. I don't know of any situation like this ever happening before to this team or any other team. The opening day starting roster usually only has 4 outfielders on the roster. Kubel was pegged as the DH and Collabello was the backup first baseman/bench bat. No team plans to lose all of their outfielders to the DL at the same time, no one.

    Another issue this team is dealing with is using the back up catcher as the DH. Most other teams do not do this. The DH position on most teams is filled by an extra outfielder or corner baseman so they have additional players that can also play the field. Neither Pinto nor Suzuki play any position other than catcher. While they have both been batting well, the team is handicapped by their inability to fill in at another position. Hermann was called up as an outfielder and has played there to fill in for one of the 4 DL'd outfielders and should not be counted as a catcher.

    Thirteen pitchers. With the way the starting pitching has been over the last few years, the Twins have needed that extra relief pitcher. If and when the starters can consistently pitch into the 6th and 7th innings, the Twins will no longer need that extra pitcher to finish out a game.

    As far as who is making the front office calls, the GM or Assistant GM, if you don't think they have consulted each other over possible moves you probably have never worked in a corporate job. Sure, Antony may be making the daily calls, but if he makes a call it has probably already been discussed and approved by Ryan. Antony has probably been given an outline and guidance on what he can or cannot do, who he can or cannot move. I would have to guess most organizations probably have short and long term organizational plans.
    This is a great post and I agree with almost every word... As a matter of fact... I've typed words that are much the same.

    The Twins have been knocked silly by injuries. In no way can the Front Office be blamed for that. I have defended the front office against some tough TD winds for awhile now.

    However... CF... I can't look at it any other way. They didn't learn from 2013 and it's a big part of the current problem.

  10. #148
    The Twins started the season with Hicks who was terrible last year, Willingham who was out most of last year and has a history of injuries, Arcia who was in and out with injuries last year and Kubel who is old with an injury history. If you go into the season with that outfield, you better have some options in AAA.

    There is no excuse for this mismanagement. The roster moves over the last two years have been horrible. We just throw people in the outfield like we are running a little league team.

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  12. #149
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    The sad part is, that after multiple more years of 90+ losses and epic mismanagement, the Twins front office will still have ardent defenders. It's just one of those aspects of fandom I guess.

  13. #150
    Just glad you didn't recommend Parmelee. He has gone 1 for 15 and his era is nose-diving. keep Parms at AAA.

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  15. #151
    Senior Member All-Star Sconnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Ugh. We don't even know for sure that this was his decision.

    Besides, even if it was his decision, everyone is going to make stupid mistakes at a new job.

    If he's still making these kinds of moves next year (provided he's the one who made the move at all), then you talk about moving on because he's obviously not capable at the position.

    If people on this forum managed large numbers of people the way they suggest the Twins manage their operation, they'd have no workers left because they would have fired everybody for trivial offenses.
    Antony might not be THE issue, but his decisions are a symptom of the larger issue of managerial depth. The team was destroyed during Bill Smith's tenure after taking over for TR. Smith that bad, or Smith that unprepared and an organization that unable to build management from within? TR comes back, makes great minor league depth moves but the major league team sucks. TR takes a leave of absence to treat cancer. Rob Antony takes over, the major league roster is worse yet, and they've managed to lose prospects for over the hill relievers, and lose position player depth at the position they are trying to build upon.

    TR has the ability to effectively manage the roster, but RA seems to be making decisions on an island, and that island is becoming populated by pitchers and catchers, and doesn't have enough other species to keep the island from becoming too inbred. Is Antony incompetent? Or is the organization unable to build the required managerial talent, or support? If Gardy is the only source of support, the bigger picture gets lost.

  16. #152
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    Kubel has gotta go next. He whiffs about every other AB, has shown no power or run production, plus he's a liability on the bases and in the field.

    I don't care if we have to dredge up some AAA lifer to play OF, as long as they can play defense and put the ball in play.

  17. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    The report I saw yesterday was that Willingham swung pain-free yesterday. A 60-day DL stint would keep Hammer out until June 5th or something like that. In response to another point made here, just using a reliever doesn't disable him for a day or two if they don't throw too many pitches. The best example is the closer. Perkins is usually available at least three days in a row for an inning only. Under that criteria, perhaps all of the relievers used today would be available tomorrow. If 20 pitches is the cutoff, Guerrier wouldn't be available, but everyone else would.
    Except, Gardy was "forced" to keep a 14th piitcher last Friday, claiming the bullpen was somehow completely wiped out by playing 3 games in 2 days, despite having the previous 3 days off. Ridiculous. It isn't just the 20 pitches cutoff, it's using up guys by warming up in the bullpen for umpteen pitches, and then only using them for an inning or less.

    For example:

    April 30 vs. Dodgers: 3 RPs- 2.1 IP
    May 1 vs. Dodgers: 2 RPs- 5 IP (why not just let Deduno finish it out?)
    May 1 vs. Dodgers: 7 RPs- 7.2 IP (knowing it was Kris Johnson starting, somebody had to be designated to go 3 innings, and then, why not pitch Perk for both the 9th and 10th inning?)
    Last edited by jokin; 05-08-2014 at 09:50 PM.

  18. #154
    Senior Member All-Star Sconnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    This is a great post and I agree with almost every word... As a matter of fact... I've typed words that are much the same.

    The Twins have been knocked silly by injuries. In no way can the Front Office be blamed for that. I have defended the front office against some tough TD winds for awhile now.

    However... CF... I can't look at it any other way. They didn't learn from 2013 and it's a big part of the current problem.
    I struggle with the 40 man composition. No injuries are not the fault of the GM or assistant GM, but the only guy they can bring up for RF is a catcher? It's the same problem as CF. Kubel turned out to be a very good sign, but no CF in AAA on the 40 is inexcusable. When the depth is this thin, how can you wait and see with Mauer?

  19. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    This is a great post and I agree with almost every word... As a matter of fact... I've typed words that are much the same.

    The Twins have been knocked silly by injuries. In no way can the Front Office be blamed for that. I have defended the front office against some tough TD winds for awhile now.

    However... CF... I can't look at it any other way. They didn't learn from 2013 and it's a big part of the current problem.
    I'm at a loss how you can agree with almost every word, as CF, which requires at least 2 players at the major league level and 2 in AAA, is the sine qua non for building OF depth and maintaining reasonable solutions should the worst happen. The Twins failed at this effort, utterly, and with malice aforethought- per their strange and inexplicable attraction to Jason Bartlett over exercising plain old common sense

    And Duluth fails to acknowledge that losing 4 OFs didn't happen all at once. The first 2 losses were over a month ago. And because of ridiculous roster decisions, 2 legitimate CFers were lost needlessly- and another legit AAA depth guy was let go in ST (Mitchell). The Twins have done nothing, save claiming Sam Fuld, to remedy this predicament of their own making.

    We concur, they clearly learned nothing from 2013 regarding the OF- only instead, now all 4 OF came in with huge question marks surrounding them. And I take strong issue with Duluth on the "planning thing". Yes, they "plan", but the problem is, and the evidence clearly shows it to be true, they always tend to stop their planning at Plan A.
    Last edited by jokin; 05-08-2014 at 09:22 PM.

  20. #156
    Senior Member All-Star Sconnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudcat14 View Post
    Kubel has gotta go next. He whiffs about every other AB, has shown no power or run production, plus he's a liability on the bases and in the field.

    I don't care if we have to dredge up some AAA lifer to play OF, as long as they can play defense and put the ball in play.
    Sarcasm?

  21. #157
    Senior Member Triple-A D. Hocking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sconnie View Post
    TR takes a leave of absence to treat cancer.
    Have there been any updates on how he is doing or where he is at in regards to treatment? I don't think I have heard anything about him in awhile.

  22. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sconnie View Post
    Sarcasm?
    As of tonight Kubel is hitting .268 with 1 homer and on pace to strike out 200 times.

  23. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sconnie View Post
    Sarcasm?
    Not at all. I don't care what he brings to the clubhouse, he brings nothing to the field.

  24. #160
    I think you have it backwards. By this I mean that fandom tends to create a form of analysis and opinion that would be firmly rejected in a profession environment. The fandom affect is much more apparent (IMO) in positions taken by the detractors as opposed to the supporters on this site. The supporters I have observed here demonstrate considerably more depth of understanding of how decisions are made and why.

    One thing I have learned over the course of working with a couple hundred companies in a consulting role is that the employees who were sure that the management above them were clueless were generally the people with the least experience and/or credentials. We generally find that the primary cause of their discontent is they only have a portion of the relevant information which of course is the case here. There is also a certain percentage that do not have the skills, credentials, and experience to critique management but feel compelled to do so anyway.

    I evaluate management teams every day but I would not be inclined to grade the Twins FO, at least not in any meaningful way. We don't have all the information necessary to make a credible assessment.

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