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Thread: Article: Issues in the Outfield

  1. #1
    Owner All-Star Parker Hageman's Avatar
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    Article: Issues in the Outfield


  2. #2
    Senior Member All-Star Sconnie's Avatar
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    Well written Parker! My only argument is keeping Bartlett made an already bad situation worse. Keeping Mastro or Presley would have mitigated the pain of watching IF play OF, and the hitting would be about the same, poor.

  3. #3
    Senior Member All-Star Hosken Bombo Disco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parker Hageman View Post
    Through Monday night, the Twins have had infielders in the outfield for 45.2 innings
    Meanwhile Parmelee, who was born and raised an outfielder, was sent to AAA. Is it hindsight to say that Parmelee should have made the team ahead of Bartlett?

  4. #4
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    Who positioned Escobar so shallow? The infielders turned outfielders get direction from the dugout. That Escobar looked bad is on the coaches for positioning him that shallow. I don't think he is the speedster that has patrolled shallow out there in the past

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    Senior Member Double-A troyhobbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hosken Bombo Disco View Post
    Meanwhile Parmelee, who was born and raised an outfielder, was sent to AAA. Is it hindsight to say that Parmelee should have made the team ahead of Bartlett?
    Pretty sure Gardy was the only person in mn that thought Bartlett should make the team, unfortunately his was the only opinion that mattered

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  7. #6
    I don't know how many teams could field a quality outfield while all 3 starters, + a first baseman and a reinforcement outfielder are all out at once.
    Mastro and Presley were not going to make an impactful difference and there are always Sam Fulds showing up on the wire (see Mastroianni, Presley, Thomas, Wilson.)
    IMO, the true issue isn't depth as much as having a quality starting centerfielder. Hicks' leash is waaaaaaaaay too long. The corners will be fine in short order, but this rash of injuries might mean the loss of Parmelee from the org, and it definitely means we watch some funny routes.

  8. #7
    The front office really has no plan for the outfield. They just bring up players and tell them that they are now outfielders. Even with Parmelee, if they wanted him to be an outfielders, why did he play most his games at first base at AAA? Can't be because we had other major league OF's at AAA. Now with Santana, they have a player who needs to develop his skills as a shortstop (another position of weakness in the organization), but they throw him to centerfield at the majors.

    Then they cut players from the 40 man roster who can actually play the outfield. It's becoming clear that they have no real plan to field a competitive team this year.

  9. #8
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    So the implication was that Gardy made the call on Bartlett over Presley?

    Sigh.

  10. #9
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    There is a difference between "quality", and "play someone out there that has less than 20 gams experience", isnt there?

    How can there be zero, zero, CF in AAA or AA? No one could move up to AA when Buxton went down, not even for a month or two? That implies, to me, there is no one in A+ either. Really hard to believe.

    We've been over this, Hicks can't hit ML pitching. There should have 100% been a plan for his possible failure. There wasn't. The plan to back up Willingham (often injured and older) was to sign an injured older player. With no one in AAA that they wanted to call up if it didn't work.

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    The Twins made a serious run at Raj Davis over the offseason. Would we have this discussion if he chose us over Detroit? So saying the Twins did nothing to address the OF is wrong. There really wasn't any better options out there. I do think the Twins should have brought Pierre in to compete in spring training but I don't remember seeing many available options out there. I also thought it was odd the Twins were going after Raj David so what do I know.

  12. #11
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    There were myriad options....they chose not to pursue them. I'd guess over a dozen OF were available they could have signed. They could have traded one of their young RP (since they refuse to promote them, and realy only want verteraniness out there to walk in runs) for a AAA OF. Lots of ways to plan for this. Lots and lots of ways.
    Lighten up Francis....

  13. #12
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    Not to defend the front office, but they also were planning on Buxton starting at AA this year and many of us wouldn't have been shocked for him to be pressing for the big leagues by sometime in June if he continued to progress like last year. To me, he was part of the backup plan. The injuries to Hicks and Buxton were tough to foresee. However, once they knew Buxton was hurt it's almost unforgiveable to cut Pressley/Mastroianni knowing we lack depth behind Hicks and that Hicks isn't proven himself.

    I was ok with what we brought into training camp MLB(Hicks/Pressley) AAA(Maistro) AA(Buxton) but keeping Bartlett over Pressley seemed dumb then and now it's come back to bite them.

  14. #13
    it drove me nuts when Gardy played Cuddy at 2B, and raved about what a great team player he was, and how he battled his tail off out there. Cuddy did what his manager asked, but HE COULDN'T PLAY 2B!! There should never be a time a MLB player is so completely out of position, barring late inning replacement necessitated by pinch hitters. Keeping Bartlett, and saying he'll learn how to play OF made no sense. Gardy manages the Twins like a softball team.

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    "It essentially cost the Twins that game. " Well, much like the Buckner grounder its more that it cost the Twins a fair chance at the game. If you make the play and you would have won then an error costs you the game. If the score is tied when you make it then there was probably a close to even chance you were going to lose anyway.

  16. #15
    They were too worried about blocking Hicks/Buxton, too concerned about Willingham's feelings to not consider playing him more at DH and less in LF, and way too optimistic in assuming guys would stay healthy. As said above, the insurance policy for the happy path was not well conceived.

  17. #16
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    This is exactly what I've been saying, but more elegantly written and strongly argued. Great job.

  18. #17
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    So the implication was that Gardy made the call on Bartlett over Presley?

    Sigh.
    Yes. My question is, where is the accountability for decisions like this? Someone said Gardy was the only one in MN who thought it was a good idea. I can say he was the only person in the universe. Bartlett could barely get the bat on the ball in spring training. He had never played professionally in the outfield. So why not give him the chance to play his way onto the 40 man in AAA? If he opts out, I guess he didn't want it enough. But why rush him back from nearly two years away from the game? And why risk losing the only back-up center fielder on the 40 man to do it? Gardy's response was "I don't need a back-up center fielder." If an employee of mine made such a bone-head decision, I'd fire him.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

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  20. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post

    We've been over this, Hicks can't hit ML pitching.
    Hicks has not been good in the majors thus far in his career. But this seems like an awfully bold statement to make considering he's only had 400+ PAs. I know he can't hit ML pitching yet, but why are people so quick to give up on a guy who's part of a team that is BAD? What benefit is there to the Twins in picking up waiver wire garbage with no higher ceiling? I say let Hicks keep struggling and hope he figures it out over the next year, much like hundreds of MLers before him.

  21. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    Yes. My question is, where is the accountability for decisions like this? Someone said Gardy was the only one in MN who thought it was a good idea. I can say he was the only person in the universe. Bartlett could barely get the bat on the ball in spring training. He had never played professionally in the outfield. So why not give him the chance to play his way onto the 40 man in AAA? If he opts out, I guess he didn't want it enough. But why rush him back from nearly two years away from the game? And why risk losing the only back-up center fielder on the 40 man to do it? Gardy's response was "I don't need a back-up center fielder." If an employee of mine made such a bone-head decision, I'd fire him.
    I agree.

    The conversation should've gone something like this:
    Gardy: I want Bartlett on the roster.
    FO: I understand you like the guy, but he doesn't look ready. We should keep him in the minors to see if is offense comes around.

  22. #20
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    The Bartlett decision was not Gardenhire's alone.

    He had an enabler in the front office. (That is the part that should be of most concern).

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