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Thread: The over/under on Correia

  1. #21
    I understand that the Twins have bungled several bench roles this season but honestly, it gets really tiring to see people use their back-of-the-bench decisions to invalidate the things they've done right this season.

    Good points. They spent money on 2 starting pitchers, and made some other good, and surprising, decisions . I think it was a risk worth taking on Pelfrey for 2 years, but for what they're paying him, he's a #4. If he truly is nicked, he may yet come back and be somewhat productive at the back-end of the rotation. Last year's signing of Chick Corea for 2 years was even more of a head scratcher that has them in this position this year. I still think they should've traded Correia this spring for a pitcher, of Mich Golden Light, while his value was still that high, and made room for the young guys.

  2. #22
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    Good question for this thread.

    Correia is already at the Silva/Lohse demotion date from 2006 (both were sent to the bullpen in mid-May after 8 starts). The Twins had higher expectations for that season, and those two were arguably worse in their 8 starts than Correia so far, but they also had better track records and more team control left (both could be controlled through the following season, 2007).

  3. #23
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Correia should have been cut on February 25th much less May.

    I have a hard time swallowing the argument that the Twins acted quickly on Pelfrey. At this point every start past this one is terribly slow in pulling the plug. The guy has been awful and we don't need to see 3 or 4 more to make that call.

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  5. #24
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    The guy has been awful and we don't need to see 3 or 4 more to make that call.
    That's why I put the over/under between two and three starts from now (11 days after his last start). Personally, I'd think long and hard about pulling him now and I'd probably pull him if he stumbles in his next start.

  6. #25
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    Corriea was eating innings at the beginning of the season but hasn't done that in his last 2 starts. I am going to go with 1 or 2 more starts then he'll go to the bullpen and Tonkin will go down. Any pitcher could get called up but Pelfey is 1rst in line if the velocity is up and control is better. I am ready for Meyer to get the call though.

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    I am ready for Meyer to get the call though.
    I would think May is a more likely option since he's on the 40 man and pitching better at the moment.

  8. #27
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaykay View Post
    I would think May is a more likely option since he's on the 40 man and pitching better at the moment.
    Not to mention that Meyer is refining a new pitch and, unsurprisingly, is struggling with it.

    Now is not the time to call up Alex Meyer. Let him develop the new pitch against AAA hitting.

  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    Corriea was eating innings at the beginning of the season but hasn't done that in his last 2 starts. I am going to go with 1 or 2 more starts then he'll go to the bullpen and Tonkin will go down. Any pitcher could get called up but Pelfey is 1rst in line if the velocity is up and control is better. I am ready for Meyer to get the call though.
    why not just cut him? Why put him in the bullpen? AAA has several RP ready, and they already have too many RP.
    Lighten up Francis....

  10. #29
    Once May or Pelfrey (or Johnson or whoever) is ready they should trade Correia to Texas for a CF or SS. Don't hold out for anything great, just shore up the roster a bit and free some room. His veteranhood was important when no pitchers were over the age of 25, but there are actual adults in the rotation this year and he is no longer required to hold the Pavano-Viola-Blyleven-Morris Endowed Chair Of Veteran Leadership.

  11. #30
    Is Correria tradable. I think not. Best you can hope is that he develops an injury, sits for a couple of weeks, goes to the minors and gets 3-4 starts and take it from there. Same with Pelfrey. Before Mike returns to the Twins, he will throw in Rochester (20-25 innings). Right now both would pass thru waivers, becoming a free agent. (Does Pelfrey have Blackburn-like options, still). No one would claim either. But both would be signed quickly for paying the pro-rated major-league minimum by someone.

    As for replacements, the Twins would argue Logan Darnell because he is a lefty. May could (should) get a tryout because we need to see him pitch and if he somewhat fails, he can go back down and work it out at Rochester. Sadly, I would see the Twins adding Yohan Pino to the 40-man and advancing him for some reason I can't explain.
    Joel Thingvall
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  12. #31
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    Correia has negative trade value (no one would pay him his current salary, assuming they would roster him at all). He has no significance to the future of the club. I don't really care if they give him another start or two but I would have tried to trade him in the off-season, and having failed that I would have seen enough by now.

  13. #32
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    I'm also of the opinion that it's best to DFA Correia and move on. This team is in borderline contention and this fills two needs:

    1. Clears up roster space for a guy who will be with the team long-term

    2. That guy will probably be a better pitcher than Kevin Correia

    It's good for both the short- and long-term.

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  15. #33
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    I'm also of the opinion that it's best to DFA Correia and move on. This team is in borderline contention and this fills two needs:

    1. Clears up roster space for a guy who will be with the team long-term

    2. That guy will probably be a better pitcher than Kevin Correia

    It's good for both the short- and long-term.
    This is all spot-on and it was just as spot-on two months ago. It's a shame we've had to endure 8 months of this dreck.

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  17. #34
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    why not just cut him? Why put him in the bullpen? AAA has several RP ready, and they already have too many RP.
    To be clear, I think a DFA is the correct answer, but I think there's 6 million reasons why they won't just cut him.... They will try to trade him first.... and I doubt they will have takers.

  18. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    To be clear, I think a DFA is the correct answer, but I think there's 6 million reasons why they won't just cut him.... They will try to trade him first.... and I doubt they will have takers.
    I also doubt they'll cut him though they should. I will give them a pass and say they will keep him not because of the money, but instead because they are terrified beyond reason of not having enough starting pitching options.

    They've surpsided me before and cut bait with Jason Marquis, Mike Lamb and lord knows how many washed up vets they gave MLB contracts to over the years. But their sole obsession this off season was to make sure they had more starters than they needed.

    Still wouldn't make much sense though when you consider Correia almost certainly isn't doing anything that a Logan Darnell, Scott Diamond or Sean Gilmartin could do. At some point there really isn't any difference between a terrible performance from a disappointing vet and a terrible performance from a young guy who has no business being in the majors.
    Last edited by nicksaviking; 05-15-2014 at 03:58 PM.

  19. #36
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    I think he'll have a taker or two for a low-level fringe prospect. If not, they'll DFA him after the All-Star game.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  20. #37
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    I'm also of the opinion that it's best to DFA Correia and move on. This team is in borderline contention and this fills two needs:

    1. Clears up roster space for a guy who will be with the team long-term

    2. That guy will probably be a better pitcher than Kevin Correia

    It's good for both the short- and long-term.
    This is what they should do, but I will believe it when I see it. This acting GM is a poster child for the sunk cost fallacy.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

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  22. #38
    Senior Member Triple-A Paul Pleiss's Avatar
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    Kevin Correia is a likely candidate for a phantom groin injury, or some other ghostly nonexistent injury to put him on the DL. I can't imagine him staying on the roster with an ERA anywhere near 7. May and others down at AAA could do at least that poorly, while getting needed experience and providing future value

  23. #39
    I expected a move to be made if he struggled last night, and I'm a little surprised nothing has happened. He hasn't pitched well this year, but at least the first few starts he averaged 6+ innings; now it's closer to 4. If for no other sake than that of the bullpen, it's a shame if he gets another start.
    And for the record, I haven't been a KC hater. When he signed, I had no issue with 2 years. Oh, what a fool I am.

  24. #40
    Senior Member All-Star Sconnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    The Twins had no reason to expect Mike Pelfrey to start throwing at 90mph with no control. He finished out the second half of last season throwing 92+ with decent control.

    There was no reason to expect Mike Pelfrey to be this bad or to throw this slowly based on how he performed last season outside of "I hate Mike Pelfrey".

    Mike Pelfrey, at his best, is a decent back-of-the-rotation guy. Teams need those guys to fill out a rotation, though the second year was baffling (and that's my problem with the entire situation). If the Twins signed Mike Pelfrey and sat on their hands, I would have been furious. They didn't do that. They picked up a decent #2/3, a reclamation project with big upside, and then they picked up Pelfrey. Considering their rotation woes last season and how many pitchers they ran through the rotation, I won't criticize them for being overly cautious and padding the back of the rotation a bit to prevent running out multiple AAAA guys at once.

    But the second year shouldn't have been offered. It just shouldn't.

    Anyway, back to my point about assuming incompetence from the front office with trite statements. It's not clever and it doesn't add anything to the conversation. Instead of moaning about the front office's supposed incompetence, why not offer a solution for what you'd like to see happen? Isn't that pretty obviously the point of this thread in the first place?
    I got caught up in the "He's 2 years removed from TJ surgery; they've invested while he's injured, time to reap the benefits" fallacy. I was wrong, as was the FO.

    There's nothing wrong with taking a risk if you are willing to accept the consequences. It was a risk to sign Pelf tom 2 year contract. Nothing wrong with it, if you're willing to accept that it was a mistake and move on. Eat the contract, it's 11 mil, a big chunk of $, but not insurmountable.

    the same with Correia. He was the most reliable pitcher on the roster last year, and the contract looked good. This season, not so much.

    So you gambled and lost, nothing wrong with it if you
    "know when to hold'em
    know when to fold'em
    know when to walk away
    and know when to run"

    time to fold regarding Correia and Pelfrey

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