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Thread: Future Outfield

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beezer07 View Post
    Your best defensive CF should play in CF, all other things being equal. There is no reason for offensive output to determine defensive positions.
    that's kind of my point, right? If you would be happy with the offense from Rosario and Buxton, why do you care if one is in CF and one is in LF?

    I have come to the belief Rosario should be in CF, not 2B, in AA. Move him to AAA or LF when Buxton is ready. He isn't playing 2B for this team, and I can't think of a better LF alternative than him in the entire system right now (since I am assuming he will hit better, much better, than Hicks).
    Lighten up Francis....

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    Hicks-Buxton-Rosario and Hicks-Buxton-Arcia are the most likely candidates. Rosario, Plouffe, and Parmelee are the most likely trade baits in the next 12 months.

    I think Arcia is a near lock for RF, with Vargas/Pinto/Mauer at DH duties. There just isn't room for Arcia at DH.
    Lighten up Francis....

  3. #23
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    that's kind of my point, right? If you would be happy with the offense from Rosario and Buxton, why do you care if one is in CF and one is in LF?

    I have come to the belief Rosario should be in CF, not 2B, in AA. Move him to AAA or LF when Buxton is ready. He isn't playing 2B for this team, and I can't think of a better LF alternative than him in the entire system right now (since I am assuming he will hit better, much better, than Hicks).
    I care if Rosario is the starting CF when Buxton would be a much better defender there (hypothetically). You and I agree, I assume, that it doesn't matter who plays where from the offensive side of things. The 9 best offensive players = the best offense, obviously. But this talk of "his bat plays better in LF" is just nonsense. There's no requirement that certain defensive positions produce at certain offensive levels, other than the "that's how it's always been done" requirement.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by crarko View Post
    He'll only be 18000 years old, so that's probably enough time in the minors.
    Typical Twins. Always keeping their prospects in the minors too long.

  5. #25
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Yep. "Best case scenario" for Aaron Hicks is All-Star centerfielder. That hasn't changed. It has become less likely but it's still a possibility. The guy has 438 MLB PAs.
    I'd say that Torii Hunter might be a good potential comparable at this point. Hunter did not hit over 100 OPS+ or had WAR higher than 0.1, until his age 25 season. Also, Hicks' BABIP (unlike Hunter's) in his early MLB career is about 50-100 points less than his MiLB BABIP. Is the game too fast for him and at some point will slow down? Who knows? But I think that it is way too early to give up on him.
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  6. #26
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    Hicks-Buxton-Rosario and Hicks-Buxton-Arcia are the most likely candidates. Rosario, Plouffe, and Parmelee are the most likely trade baits in the next 12 months.
    I simply cannot see any way that Hicks bat will play in a corner OF spot. He had a little power spike last year, but he has a grand total of 5 XBHs in 130 plate appearances. My point of this thread was that flanking Buxton will be two slower guys most of the time.

  7. #27
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tibs View Post
    I don't have a problem with Rosario potentially in LF. I don't see why his bat doesn't play there, but I don't put much stock in the idea of each position has certain expected offensive outputs. Get your best players on the field.
    Yep. There's no rule proclaiming that corner outfielders need to be slow sluggers. If he hits .300/.380/.420 and plays good defense, he can play LF. That was Shannon Stewart's line when he was going good.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    I simply cannot see any way that Hicks bat will play in a corner OF spot. He had a little power spike last year, but he has a grand total of 5 XBHs in 130 plate appearances. My point of this thread was that flanking Buxton will be two slower guys most of the time.
    Prior to last night, Joe Mauer had six XBHs in more PAs than Hicks. Not to compare them. Just seems like a weak argument for a kid who is barely getting going. He has more power than he's shown thus far.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  9. #29
    Senior Member Triple-A DocBauer's Avatar
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    Love threads like this as we are rebuilding, filled with hope, and I love playing with lineups.

    I think Plouffe might have potential as an OF for us, if not a DH and super-sub at several positions. Parma just might be figuring out and could be a starting OF, platoon partner, DH, even a LH 3 position super-sub similar to Plouffe. And I believe with all of my heart is a very good player to potential stud who will make his mark at one of the corner OF spots for two reasons. One being he's WAY too young and talented to say he's only a DH at this point. Give him a little time. The kid has already flashed a ML bat at 21 for goodness sake.

    Hate to be the cautionary voice of reason here, but, I am going to be anyway.

    Sano's injury stinks big time! But it is not the kind of injury, generally speaking, that should be alarming for a young position player. But it has set his development time frame back. And to expect him to be the starting 3B in May 2015 is probably unrealistic. Which keeps Plouffe there for now.

    There is nothing serious about Buxton's wrist injury, just nagging and disappointing. I'm not saying he can't be our starting CF by May next year, but he's never had a single game or AB above high A thus far. He's the top prospect in baseball for a very deserved reason. Let's just be a little realistic, let him get healthy, get his legs under himself, get his timing down, and conquer AA first. No matter impatient I am to see him patrolling CF at Target field, I'd honestly be happy to see him kick butt at AA this year, maybe with a cup of coffee at AAA to end the season. As of right now, Hicks is your starting CF to begin the 2015 season.

    And while on the subject of Hicks, the last thing I'm going to do here is rehash every argument about him that's already been stated by myself and over half the contributors here at TD the past week or so. He got promoted too soon. He's a very talented former to
    100 prospect who was untouchable just a year ago. His career has been compared to, almost eerily in comparison to Hunter and Gomez. Carew has been in his ear, as has been Antony and Gardy recently. And don't kid yourself, so has been Bruno and Molitor. We've seen a few early results. Let's see how it plays out. But again, WAY too early to give up on or pigeon hole this kid.

    Now, Rosario IS an interesting thought. I don't want to mess with Dozier, but I'm also not opposed to the now established Dozier taking a shot at SS if Rosario shows something at 2B. And when the suspension is lifted, I would keep him at 2B for now. Why wouldn't you?
    He could end up there. He could have increased trade value at 2B if that's the direction we move. Or he could end up being an OF who can also cover 2B. But even if he converts fully to the OF and never plays 2B again, what do you lose be playing him there for now? A conversion back to the OF should be short and easy.

    And I absolutely disagree that he doesn't have the bat for the OF, or corner OF. He will only be 22 this season. He has advanced a full level every season through only 4 seasons, and has never repeated a season at any level. His quad slash over those is a very impressive: 308/359/517/876. The only negatives you could possibly find with his numbers is a little higher OB to compare to his batting average, and the ability to translate his quality speed to a few more SB's. But these are also things that can be coached and worked on. He's an excellent athlete who can flat out hit. I've read articles where some doubt his power potential. 21 HR's in 2011 at Elizabethton when he went head to head with Sano for league leading numbers. He had 13 in 2012. Is he a true power hitter? Probably not. But again, only 22, ready to hit AA again soon, then hopefully AAA, never repeating a level, I'm not sure we know yet what his power potential may be.

    Like Sano and Buxton, I'm being realistic and not expecting to be ready for May 2015. But all the tools are there to be a big contributor, all around offensively. It has never been written that a corner OF has to be a bomber to be a major offensive contributor. In fact, I'm reminded fondly of Micky Hatcher in the 80's doing a fantastic job in LF as the Twins #2 hitter. He produced Avg., OB, some extra base power, and the ability to move runners. Rosario could be this and much, much more. But again, it takes some time.

    For 2015, to start at the very least, Arcia in a corner, Hicks in CF, thinking Parmalee might actually be figuring things out, might be at least a part of the equation. This leaves room for a Colabello, or a Plouffe depending on lineup.

    Thinking we might be a half season away from having the primary OF we want.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    Prior to last night, Joe Mauer had six XBHs in more PAs than Hicks. Not to compare them. Just seems like a weak argument for a kid who is barely getting going. He has more power than he's shown thus far.
    Does that say more about Hicks or about Mauer right now? Not sure that's a good example for your position.

  11. #31
    Senior Member All-Star Sconnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    that's kind of my point, right? If you would be happy with the offense from Rosario and Buxton, why do you care if one is in CF and one is in LF?

    I have come to the belief Rosario should be in CF, not 2B, in AA. Move him to AAA or LF when Buxton is ready. He isn't playing 2B for this team, and I can't think of a better LF alternative than him in the entire system right now (since I am assuming he will hit better, much better, than Hicks).
    Apparently I value the 4th outfielder more than others, but maybe Rosario is that guy and not Hicks? Regardless, playing Rosario in a lot of different positions can only help with flexibility. Right now it looks like Rosario is a talented prospect without a 2b spot in the majors.

    There's a lot more uncertainty with the outfield where he has more experience. If Rosario can be a good hitter and plus fielder, there's opportunity for him.

  12. #32
    Senior Member All-Star Sconnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocBauer View Post
    Love threads like this as we are rebuilding, filled with hope, and I love playing with lineups.

    I think Plouffe might have potential as an OF for us, if not a DH and super-sub at several positions. Parma just might be figuring out and could be a starting OF, platoon partner, DH, even a LH 3 position super-sub similar to Plouffe. And I believe with all of my heart is a very good player to potential stud who will make his mark at one of the corner OF spots for two reasons. One being he's WAY too young and talented to say he's only a DH at this point. Give him a little time. The kid has already flashed a ML bat at 21 for goodness sake.

    Hate to be the cautionary voice of reason here, but, I am going to be anyway.

    Sano's injury stinks big time! But it is not the kind of injury, generally speaking, that should be alarming for a young position player. But it has set his development time frame back. And to expect him to be the starting 3B in May 2015 is probably unrealistic. Which keeps Plouffe there for now.
    Good point, TJ might mean Sano becomes 1st base or DH. It's a topic for another thread, but this opens a whole new can of worms

  13. #33
    Senior Member Triple-A Paul Pleiss's Avatar
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    I don't like forcing projections on players, especially ones who have not seen time at or above AA (Sano/Buxton). Next season we see Aaron Hicks in CF with Arcia/Parm/Cola in LF/RF, take your pick. Buxton would have to make huge strides the rest of this season to be up early in 2015, and Sano still has to prove himself at AAA after losing 2014. The OF a year from now looks similiar to how it looks this year but with Arcia hopefully healthy and Hammer on someone else's DL.

  14. #34
    Senior Member All-Star Hosken Bombo Disco's Avatar
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    Hicks is probably an average center fielder at best (winging it, no stats to back it up) but he has a nice arm, some speed, can field his position. Yet none of our other outfielders are anywhere near Hicks's ability. Yet Hicks rode pine today.

    Future outfield… I will take a crack at tomorrow's. I would guess it will include Willingham, Hicks, Arcia (regardless of "handedness" of pitcher) but with that dirty dog Gardenhire you never know what you're going to see out there. Might cost us a ballgame but at least it will entertain and this is the entertainment biz after all

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hosken Bombo Disco View Post
    but with that dirty dog Gardenhire you never know what you're going to see out there. Might cost us a ballgame but at least it will entertain and this is the entertainment biz after all
    This wins the internet.

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  18. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hosken Bombo Disco View Post
    Hicks is probably an average center fielder at best (winging it, no stats to back it up) but he has a nice arm, some speed, can field his position. Yet none of our other outfielders are anywhere near Hicks's ability. Yet Hicks rode pine today.

    Future outfield… I will take a crack at tomorrow's. I would guess it will include Willingham, Hicks, Arcia (regardless of "handedness" of pitcher) but with that dirty dog Gardenhire you never know what you're going to see out there. Might cost us a ballgame but at least it will entertain and this is athe entertainment biz after all

    FWIW...in the post-game presser, Reusse pressed Gardy on the OF situation, with particular emphasis on the status of Hicks. Gardy endorsed him, much as he did Florimon in ST, with a "he's my Center Fielder....we've got him working on the things he needs to do to be successful"...we'll see if that quickly changes when Fuld stops seeing double.

    And to add to the "Twins CF Men of Mystique and Mystery- 2014 Edition", Gardy also said that Chris Hermann was being sent down to get reps in Center Field...the press room went silent in stunnned amazement....that's right, folks, now #3 on your CF depth chart, just behind Hicks, and SS/Sorta CF Danny Santana, is now officially Chris Hermann. In looking at his vast experience at the position, I see all of 11 games there in 2010 at Ft Myers....this should work.....That's Entertainment!
    Last edited by jokin; 05-25-2014 at 09:19 PM.

  19. #37
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Future outfield? Yes I hope they have one in the future

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  21. #38
    Senior Member All-Star Hosken Bombo Disco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pleiss View Post
    This wins the internet.
    not my best stuff but thanks

  22. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    FWIW...in the post-game presser, Reusse pressed Gardy on the OF situation, with particular emphasis on the status of Hicks. Gardy endorsed him, much as he did Florimon in ST, with a "he's my Center Fielder....we've got him working on the things he needs to do to be successful"...we'll see if that quickly changes when Fuld stops seeing double.

    And to add the "Twins CF Men of Mystique and Mystery- 2014 Edition", Gardy also said that Chris Hermann was being sent down to get reps in Center Field...the press room went silent in stunnned amazement....that's right, folks, now #3 on your CF depth chart, just behind Hicks, and SS/Sorta CF Danny Santana, is now officially Chris Hermann. In looking at his vast experience at the position, I see all of 11 games there in 2010 at Ft Myers....this should work.....That's Entertainment!
    Thanks for the info -- it's good to get these reports from the postgames, as I don't usually catch them but just a few sound bites later on. Also good to finally see guys like Reusse and Bremer starting to ask out loud what some of us have been asking for quite a while.

  23. #40
    Senior Member Triple-A DocBauer's Avatar
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    Just a clarication in my previous entry, something got cut out accidentally, I was referencing Arcia when I commented I felt in my heart he had borderline stud potential and it was way too early to pigeon hole him as a DH so early in his career. Sorry for the error.

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