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Thread: LEN3 reports that Fuld has turned the corner

  1. #21
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsfan34 View Post
    Now that Escobar is cooling down, would Santana get a shot at SS? He's hotter at the dish than Nunez and Nunez has looked equally horrible in LF as Santana in CF. Granted Nunez has looked alright at 3B in his times there. I see the pecking order being Escobar, Santana, Nunez...but that's maybe not what the Twins see.

    I'm with others and letting Kubel go. Arcia is back and offers everything Kubel does, but better.
    Escobar was even bumped up to the two spot, so they probably have enough confidence to let him regress from his unsustainable .400 BABIP without much concern for the time being. But yes, it would be nice to see Santana playing every day at short.

    If the Twins don't think he's ready for that, I'd settle for reading about him playing short every day in AAA. Escobar has been a pleasant surprise so far, but organizational depth of shortstop talent is thin enough that it would be disappointing not to have Danny fully developing both his defense and offense skills as a shortstop.

    If Hicks can't get it together, though, it would appear that all bets are off. If he's sent down and Santana has to primarily play center, then let's hope he gets the majority of the AB's there, with Fuld spelling him against tough RHP.

    At any rate, he's fun to watch, and a bit like early Gomez or Revere with his athleticism and rawness combing to make for both spectacular and strange plays.

    Fun closing SSS number. Santana's BABIP vs. lefties is 1.00. 11 PA's, 4 K's, 2 BB's, 5 balls in play, all hits.
    Last edited by LaBombo; 05-31-2014 at 08:11 PM.

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    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    Did anyone else hear during the radio broadcast yesterday that when Hicks showed up for right-handed BP before Friday's game, he asked that they don't throw him any breaking stuff? He only wanted fastballs? And apparently Gardy "joked" to him that maybe he should go ask the Yankees to do the same thing?

    To an outsider, Hicks seems like he simply does not get it.
    Agree with the latter point, but feel even more strongly that Gardy (with the FO's blessing, or tolerance at least) doesn't get it either. He has a tendency to have young players on a pedestal or in the doghouse more often that seems to be warranted.

    The absurd amount of continued confidence shown in Hicks last season was flat out irrational. And now, two months into this season, he's being needlessly publicly chastised (if not outright mocked) while unlearning switch hitting at the major league level, as if that weren't enough on his plate alone.

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    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    Escobar was even bumped up to the two spot, so they probably have enough confidence to let him regress from his unsustainable .400 BABIP without much concern for the time being. But yes, it would be nice to see Santana playing every day at short..
    Got to love this

    Santana's BABIP is .570 this season. His BABIP is usually in the .310s or so. Escobar had a .373 BABIP at AAA last season. Methinks that his BABIP is closer to his real than Santana's...
    Last edited by Thrylos; 05-31-2014 at 09:03 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    Personally, I'd like to see Fuld and Santana share duties in center and have Hicks sent to Rochester to learn to hit breaking stuff right-handed.

    Did anyone else hear during the radio broadcast yesterday that when Hicks showed up for right-handed BP before Friday's game, he asked that they don't throw him any breaking stuff? He only wanted fastballs? And apparently Gardy "joked" to him that maybe he should go ask the Yankees to do the same thing?

    To an outsider, Hicks seems like he simply does not get it.
    I believe the context of the radio broadcast was condition of his back. I suppose looking fastball and adjusting to breaking ball can impact the back. Leaving the context out changes the meaning. Perhaps it was said more than once in the broadcast.

  7. #25
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    I don't think there are any breaking balls thrown during normal pregame BP.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    Personally, I'd like to see Fuld and Santana share duties in center and have Hicks sent to Rochester to learn to hit breaking stuff right-handed.

    Did anyone else hear during the radio broadcast yesterday that when Hicks showed up for right-handed BP before Friday's game, he asked that they don't throw him any breaking stuff? He only wanted fastballs? And apparently Gardy "joked" to him that maybe he should go ask the Yankees to do the same thing?

    To an outsider, Hicks seems like he simply does not get it.
    I know you hate Hicks more than any player in Twins history, but let's be real. Santana needs to play everyday, at shortstop. He's not a center fielder and it makes no sense to try to make him one. It is harder for a shortstop to learn center field at the major league level than it is for a switch hitter to learn how to hit right handed exclusively at the major league level. Fuld and Hicks should platoon in center until they have a better solution.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

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    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    I don't think there are any breaking balls thrown during normal pregame BP.
    Could be wrong, but pretty sure the documentary baseball film Major League shows Cuban great Pedro Cerrano flailing away at breaking balls in BP.


    Anyway, you're probably right, but then why would Hicks make that request after nearly a season's worth of MLB BP devoid of breaking stuff? Off-topic bonus question for all: how is the Twins franchise better off for Gardy making that remark?
    Last edited by LaBombo; 05-31-2014 at 11:00 PM.

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    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    I know you hate Hicks more than any player in Twins history, but let's be real.
    Family photo in front of Bemidji's Babe the Blue Oxymoron. No, I'm not using my liquid waste to desecrate the false impersonators of the One True Babe in Brainerd. Just looking for Mom's heart medicine in reverse fanny pack.



    Not trying to be PC, but if Bonnes actually hated a ballplayer, guessing it would be a White Sock. Just sayi...

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    Last edited by LaBombo; 05-31-2014 at 11:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    Could be wrong, but pretty sure the documentary baseball film Major League shows Cuban great Pedro Cerrano flailing away at breaking balls in BP.


    Anyway, you're probably right, but then why would Hicks make that request after nearly a season's worth of MLB BP devoid of breaking stuff? Off-topic bonus question for all: how is the Twins franchise better off for Gardy making that remark?
    Definitely not.

    However, I think the quote came up first in pregame. I interpreted it as a during batting practice when discussion with Gardy about his back with Gardy. He wasn't sure about facing breaking balls and Gardy made a line up change. I inferred that it was because of his back and adjusting to a breaking ball. Gardy could have still joked that he could ask the Yankees to not throw breaking balls. He did take him out of the line up.

    Would we prefer our players keep their injuries a secret? Hicks would have been better off not stating his concern. Now it will likely be reported on KFAN tomorrow that he doesn't want to face breaking balls (without the context).

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  17. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgenswest View Post
    Definitely not.

    However, I think the quote came up first in pregame. I interpreted it as a during batting practice when discussion with Gardy about his back with Gardy. He wasn't sure about facing breaking balls and Gardy made a line up change. I inferred that it was because of his back and adjusting to a breaking ball. Gardy could have still joked that he could ask the Yankees to not throw breaking balls. He did take him out of the line up.

    Would we prefer our players keep their injuries a secret? Hicks would have been better off not stating his concern. Now it will likely be reported on KFAN tomorrow that he doesn't want to face breaking balls (without the context).
    Fine and dandy. But why rather pointedly beat the dead horse in the post-game presser?

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  19. #31
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    Hicks is 24. He has a lot of time. Send him to AAA. Give him a year, or two, or three to figure it out. If he doesn't, DFA him.

    Kubel needs to be DFA now, right now. (I was very much in favor of giving Kubel a chance this season but clearly he's finished.)

    Opinions are a dime a dozen, and I've just given you two.

  20. #32
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    I know you hate Hicks more than any player in Twins history, but let's be real. Santana needs to play everyday, at shortstop. He's not a center fielder and it makes no sense to try to make him one. It is harder for a shortstop to learn center field at the major league level than it is for a switch hitter to learn how to hit right handed exclusively at the major league level. Fuld and Hicks should platoon in center until they have a better solution.
    Robin Yount. A lot of high profile guys have moved to the outfield, not necessarily center field from other positions. Dale Murphy won gold gloves and MVPs and he was previously a catcher. Most good utility guys start in the infield and learn to be outfielders--Cesar Tovar, Tony Phillips. Pete Rose spent years in the outfield after being a second baseman. With a little effort, I'm sure I can find many more who have converted from infield to outfield and a bunch who have specifically gone from shortstop to center field. As far as switch hitters going exclusively righty--Victorino and that was originally because of an injury.

    The larger point is that Hicks has a year to a year and a half at most to establish himself as a contributing center fielder. Even under optimum conditions, I would say the odds are against Hicks. Trying to make the transition to hitting righty only makes him establishing himself within the time frame I suggested nearly impossible. There are reinforcements for the corners and one of them has had a very nice return to the team this week. By now, only the rosiest of optimists can envision Aaron Hicks being a regular on a contending Twins team two years hence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Fine and dandy. But why rather pointedly beat the dead horse in the post-game presser?
    We'd have to ask our manager.

    Joe Mauer injury his back mysteriously and misses several days with only respectful comments from our manager. Aaron Hicks injurs his back stealing a home run and helping us win a ball game and he is ridiculed having missed two starts.

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    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    Robin Yount. A lot of high profile guys have moved to the outfield, not necessarily center field from other positions. Dale Murphy won gold gloves and MVPs and he was previously a catcher. Most good utility guys start in the infield and learn to be outfielders--Cesar Tovar, Tony Phillips. Pete Rose spent years in the outfield after being a second baseman. With a little effort, I'm sure I can find many more who have converted from infield to outfield and a bunch who have specifically gone from shortstop to center field. As far as switch hitters going exclusively righty--Victorino and that was originally because of an injury.

    The larger point is that Hicks has a year to a year and a half at most to establish himself as a contributing center fielder. Even under optimum conditions, I would say the odds are against Hicks. Trying to make the transition to hitting righty only makes him establishing himself within the time frame I suggested nearly impossible. There are reinforcements for the corners and one of them has had a very nice return to the team this week. By now, only the rosiest of optimists can envision Aaron Hicks being a regular on a contending Twins team two years hence.
    Yount was an established major league shortstop before making the transition. And Santana is no Robin Yount.

    The one case in which a player has given up switch hitting recently was a success. Therefore, it is almost impossible that another player could be successful making this transition. Great argument.

    Obviously, Hicks is a lightening rod for a lot of people around here. I just want to remind everyone that he was a top-rated prospect who has struggled with one aspect of his game throughout his career: hitting left handed. I'm sure it will take time. But it is not impossible. At any rate, it's way too early to give up on him based on one week's worth of play exclusively right handed, in a week when he was out for two games with a sore back, which he hurt when landing on it after robbing a home run.

    I am an optimist. But I am not the rosiest of optimists. Another great argument, the classic straw man.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  23. #35
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgenswest View Post

    However, I think the quote came up first in pregame. I interpreted it as a during batting practice when discussion with Gardy about his back with Gardy. He wasn't sure about facing breaking balls and Gardy made a line up change. I inferred that it was because of his back and adjusting to a breaking ball. Gardy could have still joked that he could ask the Yankees to not throw breaking balls. He did take him out of the line up.
    I obviously don't know for sure, but I also feel there's some miscommunication going on about Gardy's quote, and my bet is LENIII is the reason for that.
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  25. #36
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    Robin Yount. A lot of high profile guys have moved to the outfield, not necessarily center field from other positions. Dale Murphy won gold gloves and MVPs and he was previously a catcher. Most good utility guys start in the infield and learn to be outfielders--Cesar Tovar, Tony Phillips. Pete Rose spent years in the outfield after being a second baseman. With a little effort, I'm sure I can find many more who have converted from infield to outfield and a bunch who have specifically gone from shortstop to center field. As far as switch hitters going exclusively righty--Victorino and that was originally because of an injury.

    The larger point is that Hicks has a year to a year and a half at most to establish himself as a contributing center fielder. Even under optimum conditions, I would say the odds are against Hicks. Trying to make the transition to hitting righty only makes him establishing himself within the time frame I suggested nearly impossible. There are reinforcements for the corners and one of them has had a very nice return to the team this week. By now, only the rosiest of optimists can envision Aaron Hicks being a regular on a contending Twins team two years hence.
    Just to put a finer point on it, you argue that Santana can make the transition because one (HOF) player did. Then you argue that Hicks cannot make the transition because only one (non-HOF) player did. Either way, the argument from one case is weak. But isn't odd to you that you can use the same argument to support opposite conclusions?
    Last edited by cmathewson; 06-01-2014 at 10:03 AM.
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    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    I obviously don't know for sure, but I also feel there's some miscommunication going on about Gardy's quote, and my bet is LENIII is the reason for that.
    Yes. This is episode 1678 in the continuing saga of LENIII quoting someone out of context and calling it a scoop.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    I obviously don't know for sure, but I also feel there's some miscommunication going on about Gardy's quote, and my bet is LENIII is the reason for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    Yes. This is episode 1678 in the continuing saga of LENIII quoting someone out of context and calling it a scoop.
    Chief and Christy, I don't know about the pregame quote, but I do know that the Strib turned the corner on over-the-top, critical coverage of Hicks and the CF situation- from first, Reusse, then LEN, and then Scoggins- in quick succession after the Giants series.

    But then, there's no mistaking what Gardy said on-camera in the post-game interview, and it doesn't portend well for Hicks' future with the Twins.

  28. #39
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Chief and Christy, I don't know about the pregame quote, but I do know that the Strib turned the corner on over-the-top, critical coverage of Hicks and the CF situation- from first, Reusse, then LEN, and then Scoggins- in quick succession after the Giants series.

    But then, there's no mistaking what Gardy said on-camera in the post-game interview, and it doesn't portend well for Hicks' future with the Twins.
    Well, I'm sure Gardy is not happy about the situation. But the player will determine his own future with the team. If hitting right handed exclusively clicks, he'll have a future in the game. If it doesn't, he won't. What Gardy says from day to day has little impact. He's known for wild changes in his sentiments. He's not known for staying true to his word when things change on the field of play.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  29. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgenswest View Post
    We'd have to ask our manager.

    Joe Mauer injury his back mysteriously and misses several days with only respectful comments from our manager. Aaron Hicks injurs his back stealing a home run and helping us win a ball game and he is ridiculed having missed two starts.
    Bumping this. This hits at a core issue.

    Fuld goes on the 7 day concussion and is permitted as much comfort and time as possible, allowed to wait until he has several consecutive symptom free days before resuming baseball activities.

    Hicks comes off the 7 day concussion and a week later, his work ethic is questioned.

    Anyone care to clarify this?

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