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Thread: Don't Look Now but the Transformation has Begun

  1. #61
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    It doesn't seem to difficult to build an appropriate lineup right now.

    Dozier 2B
    Mauer 1B
    Willingham (for now) LF
    Arcia RF
    Pinto DH/C
    Plouffe 3B
    Suzuki C/DH
    Escobar SS
    Hicks CF

    Send Santana to SS in Rochester. Release Kubel. Fuld returns soon and call up Romero

    Parmelee (lefty)
    Fuld (lefty)
    Romero (righty)
    Nunez (righty)

    as the bench

    This is not, at all, difficult for a manager to see.
    Unfortunately, without a change of manager, I think you're going to have to substitute a back-up catcher for Romero ,,,, which currently looks like Eric Fryer.

    Ludicrous but likely.

    I'd be happy watching your line-up even when they encounter difficulties because I want to see the development of Pinto, Arcia, Hicks, Escobar, Dozier and Plouffe.

    If Santana unseats Escobar, that's fine too but you're right, he needs to play SS unless they decide that just isn't the right position for him based on his skills not the team's need for a CF.

  2. #62
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    It's possible. I'm mostly indifferent on Gardy. I think he does some things right, others wrong.
    Position players whom Gardy benched/sent out for long stretches when they were young:
    Cuddles
    Kubel
    Bartlett
    Hicks
    Escobar
    Pinto

    Pitchers whom Gardy/Anderson sent down/bullpened in favor of marginal veterans:
    Santana
    Garza
    Baker
    Slowey
    Deduno

    In general, Gardy is known for putting up with a struggling young player for less than a week, and then benching him. Sometimes a guy needs a day or two to clear his mind or get extra work in the cage or, whatever. But guys get a week of starting here, a week of benching there, and generally do not get consistent play from Gardy until they prove to him at the major league level that they can do it for months at a time. A guy doesn't have to just be good to play for him, he has to be hot, and stay hot. Hence, Santana is Gardy's new favorite because he's hot. If he slumps for a week, he'll end up on the bench for a couple of weeks until the guy in front of him slumps, etc. Playing the hot hand to the exclusion of development makes Gardy a particularly bad manager for developing players.

    It's a chicken and egg situation that at best slows guys development (Cuddles is the leading poster child), at worst it means the guy has to go to another team before finding himself (Garza is the leading poster child).

    If a guy is a veteran, however, Gardy shows almost infinite patience with him. Kubel continues to start despite falling off the same cliff that landed Colabello in AAA, for example.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linus View Post
    Don't look know but its happening. With Plouffe and Dozier establishing themselves as quality MLB players and substantial playing time for Arcia, Pinto, Escobar, Santana, Hicks and Gibson, the Twins core players are now represented by younger, up and coming players.
    For the record, most of these guys were around last year, and most were performing at roughly similar levels for much of the season too. Santana is new in 2014, and Escobar and Gibson are performing better despite shaky peripherals, but otherwise, the youth transformation at the MLB level has mostly stalled since mid to late 2013 (not that it's bad, it is definitely better than regressing!).

    The transformation so far this year has mostly been Hughes, and maybe Suzuki too on the position player side.

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  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by spycake View Post
    For the record, most of these guys were around last year, and most were performing at roughly similar levels for much of the season too. Santana is new in 2014, and Escobar and Gibson are performing better despite shaky peripherals, but otherwise, the youth transformation at the MLB level has mostly stalled since mid to late 2013 (not that it's bad, it is definitely better than regressing!).

    The transformation so far this year has mostly been Hughes, and maybe Suzuki too on the position player side.
    Careful, I get ripped every week for pointing this out......
    Lighten up Francis....

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  7. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Eh, on a Jim Thome-type deal it's not a bad flyer.

    Though it's unlikely Josh is going to accept that deal.
    If Josh continues on this tear heading towards July, his trading value will probably never be higher over the remainder of his career.

  8. #66
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Re: Span.

    Fact: Aaron Hicks has a higher OBP and Fielding Percentage than Span and made more out of zone plays in about 3/4 of Span's innings in 2014.

    Let's bring back Span. And if that does not work out, let's seance Kirby's ghost or something...
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    twitter: @thrylos98

  9. #67
    Senior Member Triple-A DocBauer's Avatar
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    I believe a solid Willingham will be more productive for us over the long haul of this season that whatever A prospect we'd get for him. Age alone would prevent a big return, though a late season trade isn't out of the question. He'll have to be replaced next offseason.

    Deduno has done nothing but pitch well as long as healthy. And as such, is better than just about any other 5th starter out there. He not only deserves his spot in the rotation, but you'll see improvement over his next few starts as he stretches himself out. Hughes and Nolasco are just fine. Nolasco hasn't hit his stride yet, but we're seeing signs. You don't mess with Gibson. He's solid, will get better, but might tire around September. Just in time for call ups. May and Meyer will get their shots eventually. But don't forget, they are both in their first AAA season with a month and a half in. Give them a little more time. And I say again, don't go to sleep on Darnell. Johnson? Might be a late blooming LH, but he's probably a long or middle bullpen option.

    Dozier is good, on his way to stud status. Love what Plouffe is doing. Pinto shows tremendous potential. Escobar is a breath of fresh air. But he needs to sit or play another spot a day or two a week to let Santana see time at SS. Santana is a problem. He should play SS daily, and yet, the kid provides a spark, doesn't approach anything as if he's a young rookie who shouldn't be here. How do you not keep him up here and do something with him?

    The bullpen is close. Trading Duensing would be a huge mistake. Relievers walk a fine line. One bad stretch blows their stats up. But this guy has proven to be largely dependable when he has a role. Dealing him would be a mistake. Like the rotation though, there are the likes of Tonkin and Achter, and possibly Pino, who deserve a shot at some point this season.

    I like the direction we're heading.

  10. #68
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    The great debate: winning at all costs vs. developing young players. Unless it's an injury replacement, once a player is up from the minors, he generally needs to play. Santana has been a pleasant surprise, and until Fuld is available, he is our only option in CF. I'm a Gardie fan (one of the few apparently), but I don't understand what he is doing with Pinto.
    He needs to play, and if that's at Rochester, so be it. Same with Hicks: everyone is down on him, but he's just a young, immature young man who was rushed to the show before he was ready. People forget that Hunter and Cuddy went back and forth for years. Parmalee and Kubel really should not be on a major league roster. Bottom line, if more talent was available, we wouldn't be having this discussion!

  11. #69
    Senior Member All-Star Sconnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    Position players whom Gardy benched/sent out for long stretches when they were young:
    Cuddles
    Kubel
    Bartlett
    Hicks
    Escobar
    Pinto

    Pitchers whom Gardy/Anderson sent down/bullpened in favor of marginal veterans:
    Santana
    Garza
    Baker
    Slowey
    Deduno

    In general, Gardy is known for putting up with a struggling young player for less than a week, and then benching him. Sometimes a guy needs a day or two to clear his mind or get extra work in the cage or, whatever. But guys get a week of starting here, a week of benching there, and generally do not get consistent play from Gardy until they prove to him at the major league level that they can do it for months at a time. A guy doesn't have to just be good to play for him, he has to be hot, and stay hot. Hence, Santana is Gardy's new favorite because he's hot. If he slumps for a week, he'll end up on the bench for a couple of weeks until the guy in front of him slumps, etc. Playing the hot hand to the exclusion of development makes Gardy a particularly bad manager for developing players.

    It's a chicken and egg situation that at best slows guys development (Cuddles is the leading poster child), at worst it means the guy has to go to another team before finding himself (Garza is the leading poster child).

    If a guy is a veteran, however, Gardy shows almost infinite patience with him. Kubel continues to start despite falling off the same cliff that landed Colabello in AAA, for example.
    I would also put Carlos Gomez in this category of bastard-child Gardy disowns and then regrets a couple years down the road.

  12. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocBauer View Post
    I believe a solid Willingham will be more productive for us over the long haul of this season that whatever A prospect we'd get for him. Age alone would prevent a big return, though a late season trade isn't out of the question. He'll have to be replaced next offseason.

    Deduno has done nothing but pitch well as long as healthy. And as such, is better than just about any other 5th starter out there. He not only deserves his spot in the rotation, but you'll see improvement over his next few starts as he stretches himself out. Hughes and Nolasco are just fine. Nolasco hasn't hit his stride yet, but we're seeing signs. You don't mess with Gibson. He's solid, will get better, but might tire around September. Just in time for call ups. May and Meyer will get their shots eventually. But don't forget, they are both in their first AAA season with a month and a half in. Give them a little more time. And I say again, don't go to sleep on Darnell. Johnson? Might be a late blooming LH, but he's probably a long or middle bullpen option.

    Dozier is good, on his way to stud status. Love what Plouffe is doing. Pinto shows tremendous potential. Escobar is a breath of fresh air. But he needs to sit or play another spot a day or two a week to let Santana see time at SS. Santana is a problem. He should play SS daily, and yet, the kid provides a spark, doesn't approach anything as if he's a young rookie who shouldn't be here. How do you not keep him up here and do something with him?

    The bullpen is close. Trading Duensing would be a huge mistake. Relievers walk a fine line. One bad stretch blows their stats up. But this guy has proven to be largely dependable when he has a role. Dealing him would be a mistake. Like the rotation though, there are the likes of Tonkin and Achter, and possibly Pino, who deserve a shot at some point this season.

    I like the direction we're heading.
    This guys got it!!!

    Now the elephant in the room: When do you look to trade J Mauer to Boston? There is no real 1B in the pipeline (Vargas/Sano???)

  13. #71
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    Ha, no one is trading for a 1B that isn't hitting, that is owed $23MM.
    Lighten up Francis....

  14. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatG View Post
    This guys got it!!!

    Now the elephant in the room: When do you look to trade J Mauer to Boston? There is no real 1B in the pipeline (Vargas/Sano???)
    Hah. That train to Boston left over a year ago, when Mauer still had real value as a Catcher.

  15. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Hah. That train to Boston left over a year ago, when Mauer still had real value as a Catcher.
    now this funny! And I know humor!!!

  16. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Ha, no one is trading for a 1B that isn't hitting, that is owed $23MM.
    $23M X 5

    Not only would this be the worst possible time to attempt to trade Mauer, Joe would have none of it with his no-trade clause.

  17. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    $23M X 5

    Not only would this be the worst possible time to attempt to trade Mauer, Joe would have none of it with his no-trade clause.

    Perhaps that would spur him on a bit...... Hmmmm.... Motivation???

    How about introducing our friend J Mauer to our other friend M Zimmer; I believe his quote was: "I like the weight room!"

    Wouldn't that be something to have J Mauer beef up a bit, a little more zing on those line drives.

    Heck if J M worked for the Red Sox or Yankees and their "chemical engineering" shop, he'd be about 6'6" and 270 lbs (remember when Texeria's head looked very small)......again, Hmmmm.....Or how about the occasional weight room visit

  18. #76
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    You must not recall there being needless in the Twins locker room, and the manager saying to ignore them......back in the day.

  19. #77
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    This thread has taken a turn to the bizarre.

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  21. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    This thread has taken a turn to the bizarre.
    It really has, hasn't it?

  22. #79
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sconnie View Post
    I would also put Carlos Gomez in this category of bastard-child Gardy disowns and then regrets a couple years down the road.
    And Liriano.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  23. #80
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    On topic, I don't agree the change has really started. This year, the minors has produced Danny Santana. Meanwhile, they chose Guerrier over several worthy AAA candidates. I just don't see it as really started yet.
    Lighten up Francis....

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