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Thread: Jon Jay

  1. #41
    Senior Member Triple-A whydidnt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    No, he's not. Meyer was a consensus top-50 prospect in all of baseball and is a beast of a human being at 6'9", 220 lbs.

    Berrios might not crack the top 50 this season even if he continues pitching like he has this season. Despite his nasty stuff, he's still a little guy and little guys often struggle at higher levels of MiLB, much less MLB.

    And even if Berrios is as projectable as Meyer (and he's not), that's still where I'd start the bidding if I was the Cardinals.
    I guess we can disagree then on this. For the record Meyer was NOT a consensus top 50 prospect when the Twins dealt for him, go back and look at the rankings. He was a top 75 guy. While Berrios may not be as high on top prospect lists, the results he is producing at a young age will change that very soon and I suspect if the Twins were willing to deal him for a Span like player...not a Jay like player they would have no problem doing so. You are are greatly overvaluing Jon Jay. The Cards didn't trade their starting 3B for a CF to replace Jay because they thought he had a great future, particularly when they had a top 10 prospect waiting in the wings as we'll. Jay has produced 0 WAR so far this year and does not profile as a guy who is going to get that much better. He's better than Sam Fuld, at least offensively, but he isn't going to be a starting CF for many upper division teams.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Triple-A whydidnt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Yeah, we had this discussion when it first heated up about the Twins interest in Jay. I would be stunned if the Twins tried to go head to head in negotiation with the Cards out of sheer CF desperation.

    Here's the list of expiring or option-related contracts for CF:

    Emilio Bonifacio (30)
    Colby Rasmus (28)
    Grady Sizemore (32)
    Denard Span (31) – $9MM club option with a $500K buyout
    Chris Young (31)


    See a deal in there? The 2 names that stand out are Rasmus and Span. I can envision scenarios that might work for both teams, without mortgaging the Twins future.
    I wouldn't mind dealing for either of those guys, but don't really think either team is going to deal their starting CF while still in contention. I also still don't think it makes sense to just deal for someone with an expiring contract...for the same reason that it didn't make sense to count on Sano coming into this year. The Twins do not currently have a CF playing above A ball that looks like a future major league player. We can't go into 2015 with the same kind of mess and hopes that we have the last couple of years at a key position like that.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    It'd be all sorts of hilarious if the Twins somehow ended up with Span again.
    Yeah, and obviously, no one in the Twins braintrust has ever read the Thomas Wolfe novel, "You Can't Go Home Again."

    I think Denard, if traded back to the Twins, would first kiss the MSP tarmac upon arrival, and then the "400ft." sign in CF at TF, should he get the chance to come home.

  4. #44
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whydidnt View Post
    I guess we can disagree then on this. For the record Meyer was NOT a consensus top 50 prospect when the Twins dealt for him, go back and look at the rankings. He was a top 75 guy. While Berrios may not be as high on top prospect lists, the results he is producing at a young age will change that very soon and I suspect if the Twins were willing to deal him for a Span like player...not a Jay like player they would have no problem doing so. You are are greatly overvaluing Jon Jay. The Cards didn't trade their starting 3B for a CF to replace Jay because they thought he had a great future, particularly when they had a top 10 prospect waiting in the wings as we'll. Jay has produced 0 WAR so far this year and does not profile as a guy who is going to get that much better. He's better than Sam Fuld, at least offensively, but he isn't going to be a starting CF for many upper division teams.
    No, Jay isn't a great player... But he's an acceptable starter at an up-the-middle position with 2 2/3 more years of team control.

    It's going to cost something of value to get a guy like that. A lot more than Casey Fien and a marginal prospect. Right-handed relievers who don't throw terribly hard are extremely volatile and nearly a dime a dozen. I like Fien but he's not going to net you much in return without the vaunted "closer" tag next to his name.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    Can they get Span back for Casey Fien?

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by whydidnt View Post
    I wouldn't mind dealing for either of those guys, but don't really think either team is going to deal their starting CF while still in contention. I also still don't think it makes sense to just deal for someone with an expiring contract...for the same reason that it didn't make sense to count on Sano coming into this year. The Twins do not currently have a CF playing above A ball that looks like a future major league player. We can't go into 2015 with the same kind of mess and hopes that we have the last couple of years at a key position like that.
    Of course, this is all based on the assumption that the Twins stay relevant in the chase, but...

    1) Harper can play CF for the Nats, and Cabrera and Bautista could share the role part-time for the Jays.
    2) Expiring contracts can be exchanged between teams where mutual interests are deemed of value to either the Jays or Nats (Willingham, Nunez, Correia, etc.)
    3) Willingham would be a great RH DH bat for the Rays, considering that Adam Lind has a career OPS+ of 52 against lefties and Josh could play some LF.
    4) Nunez may be considered acceptable to replace Goins at 2nd for the Jays.
    5) The Nats want to upgrade their bench (Nunez, Escobar might be of interest, but it would obviously cost something else to get 1.5 years of Span, thus the Bridge to Buxton issue would be solved).
    3) There's a chance that another replacement-type CF might also be waived, Sizemore would be of most interest for the Twins to grab.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwainZag View Post
    I really think it depends on the prospect. Fien and a C prospect? Get it done. THe real question would be what to do with Jay after this season.
    Could we make it Duensing and a C prospect? After all, lefties are such a premium. (Maybe we could get them to believe that somehow. Or maybe they are looking for a starter, I think we could make Correia available).

  8. #48
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Kirby_Waved_At_Me's Avatar
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    Washington is in "Win Now" mode - I think they would only consider trading Span for a guy that could start for the Nationals. So... Span for Plouffe (now that Ryan Zimmerman has been moved to LF) would work for Washington, but I don't think the Twins would be interested in doing that.

    The Jays... I don't really know what they want. Probably prospects- they have been rumored to be low on cash this year.

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