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Thread: Article: That's the Ticket: Failure to Launch

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    Owner All-Star Parker Hageman's Avatar
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    Article: That's the Ticket: Failure to Launch


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    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    I'm not sure that losing 253 with a pretty clearly articulated plan is that much worse than losing 222 with a bit of a muddled mess.

    It does look like both teams may be starting to turn things around a little. The Astros are 10-3 over their last 13 games while the Twins are .500 over their last 10 and hovering near .500 for the season.

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out. And I'm really hoping that Phil Hughes can continue with his streak of stellar performances.

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    Paul Pleiss (06-07-2014)

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    Senior Member All-Star Winston Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    I'm not sure that losing 253 with a pretty clearly articulated plan is that much worse than losing 222 with a bit of a muddled mess.
    I was thinking the same thing. We have 2 more wins, this year, with a not sure what the plan is.
    This comment brought to you from the Rosedale Mall studio by Hamm's Beer, brewed in the land of sky blue waters.

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    Paul Pleiss (06-07-2014)

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    They clearly committed to a strategy. And, it is already showing fruition in YOUNG players playing well. The Twins took a different approach (and are actually over the median age for teams this year)......
    Lighten up Francis....

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    I'm not sure that losing 253 with a pretty clearly articulated plan is that much worse than losing 222 with a bit of a muddled mess.
    By no means was I attempting to paint the Twins as a team in a better overall position. I just believe they are in a better position to win this series at home given the pitching match-ups.

    While I do enjoy Houston's forthrightness about their strategy, it still is not clear if it will work out. And, while Houston's front office draws accolades for being stat savvy and analytical, we must also remember the Twins have built one of the best current farm systems in the game as well.

    Ultimately, I envy the Astros for having the long-term vision and, as a student of the game, I appreciate their ability to communicate that vision to the fan base.

  8. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    They clearly committed to a strategy. And, it is already showing fruition in YOUNG players playing well. The Twins took a different approach (and are actually over the median age for teams this year)......
    The Twins took a different approach in it was not a planned rebuild. The 2010 team won 94 games and had a roster that was primed to do it again in 2011. What they didn't plan on was missing 328 combined games from Mauer, Morneau, Kubel and Span. The only position players to appear in more than 100 games were Cuddy, Valencia and Revere. There was also the fact Nathan was just coming of TJ surgery, Baker was great...until injuries derailed him in July and Liriano & Pavano were shells of what he was the year before.

    You go from a playoff team to a team that lost 99 games with a similar but injury ravished roster in one season. 2012 they had hope that 2011 was just an aberration with the injuries, but the team had no pitching and last season was obviously a rebuilding year.

    Talk all you want about the age on this team, the fact is the only guys over 31 won't be here long (Willingham, Guerrier, Bartlett (already gone), Correia, Burton, Kubel and Fuld). No player on that list is in the long term plan and there's a great chance all of them are gone after this season. There's a chance that when they break camp next year, Mauer at age 32 might be the elder statesmen of the entire team.

    After that most of the starters on the team are under the age of 30. Taking Nolasco and Mauer out of the equation (Both above average starters at age 31) you have Plouffe at 28, Hughes 28, Dozier 27, Gibson 26, Pinto 25, Hicks 24 and Arcia 23. The core of this team is between the ages of 23-28 and not to mention has one, if not the best system in baseball.

    As much slack as a lot of posters, including myself give the front office, IMO the Twins have done a pretty decent rebuild considering it didn't really start until after the 2011 season and realistically into the 2012 season. The future is bright my friends.

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    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwainZag View Post
    As much slack as a lot of posters, including myself give the front office, IMO the Twins have done a pretty decent rebuild considering it didn't really start until after the 2011 season and realistically into the 2012 season. The future is bright my friends.
    Here's where we differ significantly. I started posting about the need for a rebuild on October 10, 2010 immediately after the Twins had been eliminated from the playoffs in 3 straight games (again). At that point, it was apparent to me that this team needed to do something very, very different.

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    Hosken Bombo Disco (06-07-2014)

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    Not to mention, it's the job of the front office to continually assess where the organization is situated. It's not really a defense of the front office to say they didn't realize they had to rebuild - on the contrary, it is a serious indictment of the organization's leadership.

    The problem continues through the present, with inconsistent moves like handing Hicks the CF job while relying on short-term, mediocre or worse starters like Correia and Pelfrey.

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    So take out all the old players and they aren't old?

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    Senior Member Triple-A Paul Pleiss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    Here's where we differ significantly. I started posting about the need for a rebuild on October 10, 2010 immediately after the Twins had been eliminated from the playoffs in 3 straight games (again). At that point, it was apparent to me that this team needed to do something very, very different.
    I don't think you're wrong, but because you started calling for a rebuild doesn't mean the FO thought it was time. I, like many Twins fans, was disappoined with the playoff losses, but thought the team could rebound with an addition of pitching (that never came), but then injuries did what they did and Twins fans began to wonder what exactly "Bi-lateral leg weakness" is (and they're still wondering).

    But I think we're on the same point going forward. I like the direction the Twins are moving and there is legitimate hope for the future and even some not so irrational hope for 2014.

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    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    I know where they were coming from PP but for me, that 2010 series was one of, if not THE, most disheartening thing I'd seen in 50 years of watching the Twins.

    While even I did not predict the abysmal depths to which they have sunk the last 3 years, it was just apparent that it wasn't going to work. The pitching wasn't there and more importantly, the leadership wasn't there and I couldn't see that changing for 2011.

    But you're right, the bandwagon for significant change was pretty small at that point and I'm glad we have some hope going forward even though I'd still like to see some changes in management's old guard.

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