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Thread: Gardenhire's next target. Is it Pinto?

  1. #41
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    Man I wish we had Drew Butera back!

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    I don't get this "poor defensively." Will somebody please explain. Not throwing out runners? Are you kidding me? I was at Sunday's game, and the Astro runners were 3/4 the way to 2nd when Pinto caught the ball. I get the argument that he does not deserve to play, or that he should be playing more regardless, but-IMO- he'll be OK behind the plate.

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  4. #43
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    Actually, send Pinto to AAA and let him play everyday. Suzuki is playing well and hopefully he can maintain. I'm all for versatility, but being bad or average at a lot of things doesn't make you valuable (Herrmann). Call up a good defensive catcher to be a backup and only a back up catcher. That way Gardy doesn't have to even think about his lineup card, but can just get some consistency in it. Fryer would be fine. If something happens to Suzuki, call up Pinto to be the everyday guy.

  5. #44
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    Cracks me up that someone always thinks Gardy has to have someone to throw under the bus.

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  7. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halsey Hall View Post
    Cracks me up that someone always thinks Gardy has to have someone to throw under the bus.
    Then you haven't been in the hallway on the way to the Twins' pressroom:


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  9. #46
    Senior Member All-Star Hosken Bombo Disco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curt1965 View Post
    I don't get this "poor defensively." Will somebody please explain. Not throwing out runners? Are you kidding me? I was at Sunday's game, and the Astro runners were 3/4 the way to 2nd when Pinto caught the ball. I get the argument that he does not deserve to play, or that he should be playing more regardless, but-IMO- he'll be OK behind the plate.
    This is could be a valid point. Whether or not Deduno is effective at holding runners. Or maybe the coaches in the dugout aren't sending Pinto the right signals at the right times.

  10. #47
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    Pinto reminds me of Ramon Castro in his plate approach and skill set. Castro was never a regular, but we are all hoping Pinto will be.

  11. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by curt1965 View Post
    I don't get this "poor defensively." ... I was at Sunday's game, and the Astro runners were 3/4 the way to 2nd when Pinto caught the ball.
    It could be both. He hasn't had a lot of opportunities to throw out runners, and he's pretty slow and innacurate throwing on top of it.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  12. #49
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    I think that Pinto can be a regular on a contending team. Also, I think his bat will be better than his defense. The key is for him to get as good as he can with his receiving and pitcher-handling skills. He will be a decent hitter.

  13. #50
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Further, on Pinto's defense, he works hard and has a strong enough arm to be adequate. His throwing mechanics are messed up right now and I think it's hard to work something like that in Josmil's current role.

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  15. #51
    Unless you're like Mackey Sasser and can't throw the ball to second base. I don't think throwing out runners is a fair way to determine a catchers defensive value.

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  17. #52
    IT should be mauer. why wont gardy move him down to 6-7 in the order. till he can at least MAYBE get a hit or drive in a run, its getting beyond insane watching this the last few weeks!!
    Quote Originally Posted by jorgenswest View Post
    Josmil Pinto will be the next young player Ron Gardenhire starts exposing in his press conferences.

    Look at his use this year. What young catcher could have been successful with the way Pinto has been used?

    Why take your developing catcher and use him primarily with a pitcher who is among the most difficult to catch in the majors? How can you work on your technique when catching Sam Deduno is different than catching any other pitcher? The Twins have a veteran in Suzuki that should be working with Deduno. Gardenhire wouldn't do that to a veteran.

    He isn't hitting recently. Playing twice a week, what else can you expect from a young player? He needs consistent at bats

    Gardenhire set up Pinto for failure and now I expect him to o start implying that he needs to go down and work.

    The front office has provided Gardenhire with the veterans he loves. They have used a franchise record number of players in their 30s. The team needs to respond with wins this year.

  18. #53
    Senior Member Triple-A DocBauer's Avatar
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    Once again, similar to a thread a few days ago concerning Gardy speaking about Correia and the kids in Rochester, I see Gardy just being his normal, straight and candid self. He obviously likes Pinto and has said as much. He kept him out of ST, still has him, and Pinto doesn't exactly have splinters in his pants. Now, Pinto DOES has things to work on, this is true. And it is debatable if he should get to play every day at Rochester. Considering his bat and bat potential, and what little Ive seen of him defensively, I see an average C myself. He has a good strong arm, and did a good job in the minors of throwing runners out. But the guy on the mound has something to do with that too.

    I see Pinto as a good to very good bat at C who will be solid, but nothing approaching a gold glover. And that's OK. I also agree that there is a lot more to being a solid catcher than just thrown out %. I don't know, Suzuki is playing well, no doubt. Having one of his best seasons. I still think Pinto can learn a lot up here from watching and working with Suzuki and Steinbach. But he needs development, and it's a long season. Suzuki needs time off too. I feel if Gardy would just run him out there 3 days out of 7 we'd end up with the best of both worlds.

    And again, I don't think anyone is being thrown under the bus here. The Twins and Gardy have been showing far more patience of late with younger players. They were patient and rewarded with Dozier and Plouffe. Even if he was handled poorly, they've been patient almost to a fault some would say with Hicks. Almost everyone had convinced themselves Gibson was going to Rochester to begin the season, but no, and look what he's been doing. Thielbar had a couple rough outings a few weeks ago and they stuck with him. If I could complain about anything/anyone it would be Tonkin. Despite his struggles, he was getting strikes on guys and getting outs. But he was having trouble finishing them off all of a sudden. If it wasn't for Guerrier's opt out date, they might have given Tonkin a little more time.

    A little confused about the seeming "anti-winning" attitude. We all want the Twins to be good, win, and contend. Now, I don't know if this years team can truly contend, but isn't winning kind of a good thing? But the team can only improve and prepare for the future by promoting a bunch of talented youngsters, toss out the season and do what the Astros have done the past few years? Lose, lose big and lose often? Haven't we had enough of that already? Why can't we bring along the youngsters we have, promote some more the second half, and plug in a few decent veterans and enjoy some winning at the same time? I don't know about you, but I'd rather play good ball, win some, and plug in youngsters in to a positive environment.

  19. #54
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    Some of what is discussed here was covered in another thread--"Half-In, Half-Out". It is obvious that Gardenhire was promised "better players" given the large number of veterans signed. It seems reasonable to conclude for this expenditure that are performance metrics that must be met. Pinto has made too many throwing errors on base-stealers to rate him as anyone better than "adequate at most" defensively. He does have power, but inadequate ABs negate that--but, Suzuki has hit way better than expected and justifiably is starting most of the games. Wins must be obtained, and that means Suzuki starts given his productivity. The real problem, as I see it, is the Twins are content with being a 75-85 win team and thus are more concerned with "not stinking now", than in developing young talent to win many more games in the future. Or "Half-In, Half-Out".

  20. #55
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    AAA is a development league. It's pretty clear that Pinto isn't ready to catch at the ML-level everyday. Again, do those skills he needs to be successful necessarily need to be developed at the ML-level or can they be developed at AAA?

    If it was his bat that needed exposure, I'd be with you that exposure to ML pitching would help, but that his deficiencies are defensive, what he needs is games behind the plate, not exposure to elite competition.
    Pretty much this. I should note that Gardy's comments haven't exactly thrown him under the bus. They are accurate statements. The issue I have is what will fix them. I don't see sitting on the bench in MLB being the solution to those problems. He needs to play more. Send him down and call up Fryer. I have no issue with that, especially given how sparsely he's playing.

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