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Thread: Article: When Will Josmil Pinto Be Sent Down?

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    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Article: When Will Josmil Pinto Be Sent Down?


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    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    A more evenhanded take than the thread on the forum. I want Pinto to make some progress receiving and throwing as well as getting consistent at-bats. I think that is best done in the minors. Spoiler alert--learning to hit solely right handed is probably best done in the minors, too.

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    This is Pinto's 9th year in the organization. In the first 8, hopefully they will have assessed his defense skills. If there were significant concerns they should have been addressed in the first 8. Going to Rochester might help him fix a recently developed mechanical flaw and shake some rust, it won't develop a skill if it isn't there. Getting at bats in a Rochester will also help, but it won't help him adjust to major league pitching.

    The Twins are going for it this year. They can't go for it and develop struggling young players. Teams can't do both well. With no one running away in the central it makes some sense.

    In order to help the 2014 Twins, they need to send Pinto (and Hicks) down. It won't help their long term development. They need to send them down so they get regular at bats and time on the field as they wait to be called on when an injury occurs.

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    I have been asking this question for a few weeks. Is Pinto the future Twins catcher? His throwing may never be much better. Do the twins want to put their young pitchers in his hands?

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    I wouldn't have a problem with Eric Fryer sitting on the bench opposed to Pinto. Pinto needs to play, and he isn't going to play if he is struggling and Suzuki is playing well, especially now with Morales.

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    Senior Member Triple-A DocBauer's Avatar
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    In truth, I'm very torn on this subject. I don't believe Pinto is a great C, and may never be. But I don't think he's bad either. We all know he has areas to work on, like most young prospects. He has shown the past couple years in the minors, last season with the Twins, during ST, and April, that his bat has real potential. Despite not having the best mechanics, he has a strong arm and caught a good % of runners in the minors.

    I think a lot of young players reach a certain point where you have to wonder where they are better served. Yes, Pinto needs to play. More than he has been of late. But with Suzuki to learn from, ( even Mauer probably), and Steinbach to work with, and his ML experience last season and so far this season, is he better off long term up, or down. Has he reached that point where everyday play at AAA does little or nothing compared to learning at the ML level?

    Trying to fight my "want" for him to be at the ML level, I'm really unsure. But there is a part of me that believes catching 3 out of every 7 games, and getting a 4th at DH when Morales or Mauer sits might serve him better in the long run. I think this would be achieved fairly easily considering Suzuki also needs time off, no matter how well he's playing, just to last the season if nothing else.

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    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    There is no way in hell I would bring Eric Fryer or Chris Herrmann to replace Josmil Pinto on the 25-man roster. Pinto playing more might actually help him.

    Imagine that . . .

  9. #8
    I'd like to see Pinto get 2-3 starts at Catcher + 1-2 starts at DH every week, but Gardy isn't likely to do that. So, I'd get rid of Gardy. But that isn't going to happen, either. So, they might as well send Pinto down to Rochester where he can play every day. Maybe next year, at age 26, they'll give him more than 5 weeks and ~110 PA to settle into a regular role, before deciding whether he's a keeper.

    This is pretty stupid, though. Clubs, especially rebuilding clubs, really shouldn't be deciding to send down a guy like Pinto because a guy like Kurt Suzuki has had a nice 2 months, which puts him on track for a career year at age 30, and the GM couldn't resist bringing in a veteran DH who makes the team marginally better.

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  11. #9
    Most everyone has made good points, some are more valid then others. Pinto's defense wasn't this bad during his call up last year, but teams have forced him to make plays, and more times then not he is throwing the ball away, more over the fact that teams have had a chance to scout him more on both sides of the ball has not helped him. essentailly he has yet to make the adjustment. Its better for his defense to stay in the majors to keep working with Stienbach, but he needs more regular at bats. Quite frankly, he needs to catch once a series, or once to every 2 for Kurt. however, on the other hand going down and starting to get a good rapport with the young guns at AAA may be more beneficial to everyone in the long run. I think going down until say the All-star break or so would be ok. just so he can get some confidence back, and maybe thats all he needs. but i also think that Gardy has to keep Kurt fresher or he's going to be much closer to or below his career averages offensivly, and the best person to do that with is Pinto. if Gardy starts im 3 times a week once at DH and catches twice then I am ok with him staying up. if not send him down for awhile either until he's needed or until he forces his way back onto the roster. he's a player, but whats the best longterm answer, not what is the best right now.
    I would think optioning him within the next week needs to happen. he has given us a taste of how good he can be. and devolpmently thats best for him and the organization and Meyer and May to, he will be catching those two regularly, and that in my opinion is the best option both right now, but more importantly long term!

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    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Clubs, especially rebuilding clubs, really shouldn't be deciding to send down a guy like Pinto because a guy like Kurt Suzuki has had a nice 2 months, which puts him on track for a career year at age 30.
    This, Pinto should be playing more in the majors, I don't get the commitment to Suzuki, despite how well he's playing for the time being .

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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgenswest View Post
    This is Pinto's 9th year in the organization. In the first 8, hopefully they will have assessed his defense skills. If there were significant concerns they should have been addressed in the first 8. Going to Rochester might help him fix a recently developed mechanical flaw and shake some rust, it won't develop a skill if it isn't there. Getting at bats in a Rochester will also help, but it won't help him adjust to major league pitching.

    The Twins are going for it this year. They can't go for it and develop struggling young players. Teams can't do both well. With no one running away in the central it makes some sense.

    In order to help the 2014 Twins, they need to send Pinto (and Hicks) down. It won't help their long term development. They need to send them down so they get regular at bats and time on the field as they wait to be called on when an injury occurs.
    Exactly right, on both, and also when/if Suzuki begins to wilt. Suzuki is currently on pace for 131 games, which he hasn't been asked to do since 2011. Big question if he can keep the same pace nearing age 31 from when he was age 27.

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    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    I'm not at all sure I agree that Pinto is heading to Rochester.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

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    The Morales signing says the Twins aren't interested in letting young players take their lumps at the MLB level, though that's what I prefer. I'm also guessing he'll go down. Knowing how things usually work around here, about the time he is demoted, Suzuki will finally come back down to earth.

    Also, about the necessity of having a good defensive catcher to win; Brian Harper is laughing while he is polishing his WS ring as is Jared Saltilamacchia. Good hitting trumps good catching. Good pitching trumps them both.

  17. #14
    I do not think sending Pinto down is going to help him become any better. I think he is a good back up catcher and that's all he will ever be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    The Morales signing says the Twins aren't interested in letting young players take their lumps at the MLB level, though that's what I prefer. I'm also guessing he'll go down. Knowing how things usually work around here, about the time he is demoted, Suzuki will finally come back down to earth.

    Also, about the necessity of having a good defensive catcher to win; Brian Harper is laughing while he is polishing his WS ring as is Jared Saltilamacchia. Good hitting trumps good catching. Good pitching trumps them both.
    I think the Twins agree with you about catcher defense.

    I don't agree about Harper. He only threw out 22% of runners in the 1991 season and prior to that it had been in the 30s. That got some notice with the team in the news. The most important part of what a catcher does is receive the ball and call the games. One thing that usually stands out over time for catchers that lack in this skill is poorer K/BB ratios relative to the team. I believe the k/bb ratio with Brian Harper catching was better than the team average in each if his seasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Exactly right, on both, and also when/if Suzuki begins to wilt. Suzuki is currently on pace for 131 games, which he hasn't been asked to do since 2011. Big question if he can keep the same pace nearing age 31 from when he was age 27.
    Suzuki's games caught pace is actually only 115 or so, which would equal his 2012 season, and that pace has been pretty steady all year so far.

  20. #17
    At this point I think what is best for the offense is for the most part Morales playing first, Pinto at DH. If you're scared of both catchers being in the lineup have Hermann replace Parmelee on the roster. I could not care less about risking the loss of Parmelee

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    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    The Morales signing says the Twins aren't interested in letting young players take their lumps at the MLB level,
    Gonna have to disagree with your police work there norm.

    We have Trevor Plouffe, Aaron Hicks, Oswaldo Arcia and Brian Dozier on line two for ya. The Twins let plenty of young players take there lumps in the majors. I think the reality is that Pinto, though a nice player, just doesn't hit enough to be an everyday DH in this league. However, if he can at least prove to be a somewhat decent defensive catcher, he has the potential to be one of the better hitting ones in the league.

    I think the Morales signing says that the Twins want to make a run at it this year, and I for one am very happy for that.
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald


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    I say keep Pinto up. Even if he's the backup, I like the idea of having a useful backup catcher for a change. Pinto's been pretty bad the past month, but even then he's got a ~.600 OPS during that period which is probably the upside for Fryer or Herrmann.

    I would like to see Gardy and the team get creative with his playing time, though. (And no, that doesn't mean Pinto in CF ) Morales will need some days off in the early going, Willingham should get regular rest, and Mauer looks like he could use it as well. If Mauer was willing to pick up an outfielder's glove a few times, we could stagger their days off so Pinto could DH for virtually all of them. I'd rather see that for awhile then messing around with Parmelee, Nunez, Fuld, or Hicks in the corner OF spots, or even Parmelee at 1B. Maybe some time in the outfield would take Mauer's mind off his offensive struggles too. If that extra DH time doesn't kickstart Pinto's bat, and we're still doing okay in the standings, he could gradually recede to the traditional backup role.

    Of course, if Suzuki starts to slip or we're not climbing up in the standings, I would hope the 70-30 catcher playing time split would move closer to 50-50 (or better yet, 30-70 in favor of Pinto).

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    Quote Originally Posted by spycake View Post

    I would like to see Gardy and the team get creative with his playing time, though. (And no, that doesn't mean Pinto in CF ) Morales will need some days off in the early going, Willingham should get regular rest, and Mauer looks like he could use it as well. If that extra DH time doesn't kickstart Pinto's bat, and we're still doing okay in the standings, he could gradually recede to the traditional backup role.

    Of course, if Suzuki starts to slip or we're not climbing up in the standings, I would hope the 70-30 catcher playing time split would move closer to 50-50 (or better yet, 30-70 in favor of Pinto).
    Not likely to happen until/if Zuke's production collapses, if we stay competitive. And aren't the players all worn out with the creative playing time of guys out of position on the field? Mauer in RF won't likely take his mind off of his struggles, he's soon near a point where a trip to the DL is coming if he doesn't turn this around soon. Mauer will likely DH or take a day off for the very few times that Morales takes the field at 1st, and since they want Morales to stay healthy to maximize their return on investment, that won't be very many times.

    Quote Originally Posted by spycake View Post
    Suzuki's games caught pace is actually only 115 or so, which would equal his 2012 season, and that pace has been pretty steady all year so far.
    It's 115.71 games caught, to be exact, but consider....

    ...That with Morales here, and when/if Pinto goes down, Kurt's DH appearances this year are now likely going to be with him playing at catcher instead, and the Fryer/Hermann catching ratio per Suzuki would likely be even lower than the Suzuki to Pinto ratio of 71.5%-28.5%. Probably no better than 20% or maybe just once a week, if the Twins stay competitive (knowing Gardy). I calculated using the Zuke-Catching-at-5-of-6-games measure for the remaining games, which would put Zuke on the 131 pace (counting the 4 games at DH).
    Last edited by jokin; 06-11-2014 at 09:59 AM.

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