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Thread: Review Gardenhire's job so far this year

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    I'm confused by the Guerrier dislike... he's pitched 12.2 innings and has a 6.4 H/9 and a 2.8 BB/9... he's not getting hit, and he's not hurting himself excessively with walks. I don't get what the issue is. He's on the roster. He's been successful for a long time, and he's done well in most of his opportunities (11 games so far). I don't get it.
    Based on other comments I've seen, it's the 3 K/9 ratio. I think he's doing just fine though. It's not like he's Burton.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Kirby_Waved_At_Me's Avatar
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    I think part of the deal with Guerrier is that the other "getting the band back together" guys brought so little to the table this year. I think Guerrier got lumped in with Bartlett and Kubel, and a lot of people questioned signing him in the first place at the expense of players that will be with the team in the future.


    Now that it is mid-June and the Twins are still in the race for the Division (and the WC), having a pitcher like Guerrier is looking like a better move. Having an established pitcher that is performing well is better for a pennant race than having a pitcher that is being called up for the first time and adjusting to the speed of the major leagues.

    Gardenhire gives his veteran players a lot of slack, plays the hot hand, and is not particularly patient with rookies - but so far this year that has translated into a pretty competitive club. We can nitpick the individual in-game choices and question the faith he's put in some players that haven't met expectations, but the overall record should be enough to say that he's done well with the team on the field.

  3. #23
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    I think the IF in the OF was a pretty smart move. When your OF are all injured and the one who isn't is failing miserably then turning to Nunez and Santana when that's all you have is all you can do. The fact that Santana is hitting .370 almost 100 plate appearances in is better than anyone can expect. Playing CF will hinder his learning curve at SS. But maybe Santana just became our stop gap CF till Buxton arrives in 2016 at the rate he is healing. Escobar is doing fine at SS.

    I also don't get the Guerrier hate. He was good for so many years here without the dominating stuff.

  4. #24
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    Gardy's been mostly fine, but from the sound of it, Molitor has been the one responsible for the influence on defensive shifts.

    Also with Ryan out, I half suspect that Gardy was behind getting the band back together and handing undeserved 25-man roster spots to Bartlett, Kubel and Guerrier. Anthony isn't a baseball guy, I don't think he was making those calls. I'm not making any judgments as to what degree those moves worked, just that they seemed to be made out of sentimentality rather than baseball sense.

  5. #25
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    just that they seemed to be made out of sentimentality rather than baseball sense.
    I'm sure Gardy would deny sentimentality played any role, but he'd be harder pressed to convince me that wishful thinking wasn't the biggest motivator.
    Last edited by ashburyjohn; 06-12-2014 at 02:29 PM.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    Gardy's been mostly fine, but from the sound of it, Molitor has been the one responsible for the influence on defensive shifts.

    Also with Ryan out, I half suspect that Gardy was behind getting the band back together and handing undeserved 25-man roster spots to Bartlett, Kubel and Guerrier. Anthony isn't a baseball guy, I don't think he was making those calls. I'm not making any judgments as to what degree those moves worked, just that they seemed to be made out of sentimentality rather than baseball sense.
    Ryan signed the guys to minor league contracts. It is not Gardenhire who signs players
    Guerrier was in the minors up to the last possible moment, giving Tonkin every chance to work out. Had Tonkin worked out, there would be something different for people to complain about.
    Antony not a baseball guy? The guy that signs the players to the contracts should have a fairly decent idea of what goes on during a baseball game. It isn't like anyone has come up from AAA this spring and made the decisions look bad other than Santana. I don't think anyone saw this sort of production out of Santana.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    I think the IF in the OF was a pretty smart move. When your OF are all injured and the one who isn't is failing miserably then turning to Nunez and Santana when that's all you have is all you can do. The fact that Santana is hitting .370 almost 100 plate appearances in is better than anyone can expect. Playing CF will hinder his learning curve at SS. But maybe Santana just became our stop gap CF till Buxton arrives in 2016 at the rate he is healing. Escobar is doing fine at SS.

    I also don't get the Guerrier hate. He was good for so many years here without the dominating stuff.
    We also turned to Escobar in the outfield, with a result of -1 game. Hang that one on the manager, not the player. This while Parmelee was available in AAA.

  8. #28
    Senior Member All-Star Hosken Bombo Disco's Avatar
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    I actually think Gardy has done a good job with the rotation, using the starters for the right amount of innings, getting them out in time (Correia's last one), and generally leaving Suzuki to catch Hughes. We're down to a 12 man staff, so smaller bullpen, and Gardy has adjusted.

    I will confess I am a bit prejudiced against Guerrier, mainly because he's part of the band, and I think that was really questionable to have a ton of these guys from the glory days hanging around camp.

    I think we went with Kubel too long. We needed him until May 26 when Hammer and Arcia came off DL, but the writing was on the wall by then. Kubel got four more starts after that and we lost two of those games by a run. Yet Kubel really was an asset early on, so it's hard to judge his net contribution. Twins are in a good spot today with lots of baseball left to play and managin' left to do.

  9. #29
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    I will post what I usually do about Gardy. .....I often disagree with his tactics, it boggles my mind that he is terrified of losing the DH, pinch running decisions, ugh. But there is something more to being a manager we never see, and he seems to be good at those aspects. I judge coaches and managers by outcomes. .... are they winning? Are players improving? Do they do the little things well? Right now, they get a B from me.

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  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wise One View Post
    Ryan signed the guys to minor league contracts. It is not Gardenhire who signs players
    Guerrier was in the minors up to the last possible moment, giving Tonkin every chance to work out. Had Tonkin worked out, there would be something different for people to complain about.
    Antony not a baseball guy? The guy that signs the players to the contracts should have a fairly decent idea of what goes on during a baseball game. It isn't like anyone has come up from AAA this spring and made the decisions look bad other than Santana. I don't think anyone saw this sort of production out of Santana.
    I didn't say they weren't decent free agent signings, I actually liked them all on their minor league contracts. That's different than putting them on the 25-man though. None of them did a thing to earn a spot on the MLB roster. Guerrier did have to wait, but they put him on the roster intead of letting him opt out. There were a half dozen bullpen arms in Rochester that were pitching better than he was.

    But again, I'm not making judgments on how those players have performed for the MLB club, only that they almost certainly got their 25-man spot due to a past relationship with the club, not on recent merit.

    And Anthony does sign the guys to contracts, he's a numbers guy. I really doubt the whole organization defers to his baseball accumen when Ryan is out of the office.

  12. #31
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    Gardy (and the staff) get an B+ from me at this point. Dozier's continue emergence, Arcia and Plouffes improvements all are owed to him and the staff, Rick Anderson gets a ton of crap on the interwebs these days, but it should be noted that he may have helped turn Hughes into something resembling a potential Ace. The bullpen management has been pretty solid thus far as well, and I give them credit for figuring out the CF roster disaster thus far.
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald


  13. #32
    Senior Member Triple-A h2oface's Avatar
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    D. Continuing to start Correia, Nolasco, and Pelfrey (before the DL stint, of course). If anybody needed called out in the dugout, it was/is them. To continue to use them, regardless of salary, is not trying to win. Playing so many out of position. His disdain for the press in interviews when asked tough but good questions. His constant inability to notice the starter is done and putting him out there for one more inning when the team was lucky to get out of the previous inning with the game still in reach. Continuing to use Burton. Bringing Parmelee in to pinch hit with a chance to win the game, but bringing him in to bat against a lefty. Having been and continuing to leave Joe Mauer in the 2 or 3 hole of the lineup. Not realizing streaks and player hot or cold trends fast enough to use them to the teams advantage. These are just a few. It is the manager's decisions in game. This team needs new blood 5 years ago.
    Last edited by h2oface; 06-12-2014 at 02:44 PM.

  14. #33
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    I'm so-so with Gardy. I generally think managers are overrated, period, but you can tell he really cares about winning. He is still grumpy after a loss and excited about a win - that rubs off on the players. I think his real strength isn't managing the game rather managing the clubhouse. His teams play hard and don't seem to have dissension in the ranks. I think he makes up his mind about certain things and certain players and sticks by that belief even in the face of contrary evidence. I hate that he uses 5 relief pitchers to finish 4 innings but his bullpens have been generally good over the years so maybe he knows more than me.

    All in all, he's pretty much made a silk purse out of a sow's ear so far this year so he deserves credit. I think his best situation, however, is managing a veteran ballclub that is concerned about winning today and not developing players.

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  16. #34
    Senior Member Triple-A Thegrin's Avatar
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    Another sign of his flexibility is the success Colabello & Kubel had in April helped carry the team to a .500 record. Now they are gone, and not likely to ever return.

    I think Gardy looks at a guy and says to himself, "Hmmm, this guy looks like he can hit." He asks his old buddies, Vavra and Ullger (both ex-hitting coaches) and they say, "Yeah, I do believe this guy can hit."and he checks with Bruno and Bruno says, "Yeah, this guy does look like he can hit." So they put him in the lineup and keep them there and the guy hits.

    Other times Gardy looks at a guy and says to himself, "Hmmm, this guy doesn't look like he can hit." He asks his old buddies, Vavra and Ullger (both ex-hitting coaches) and they say, "Yeah, I don't think he can hit."and he checks with Bruno and Bruno says, "Nope, this guy's doesn't have a clue." So they take him out of the lineup and gets rid of him and tries someone else. Isn't that the way its supposed to work? Isn't that their job ?
    I like Parmalee. I pray for Parmalee. It looks like Parmalee is going to be sent back down cause it doesn't look like he can hit.

  17. #35
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    I'm confused by the Guerrier dislike...
    I don't think that people dislike Guerrier. He is a very likeable guy.

    Seriously: Based on what you have seen this season, who would you think would give the Twins a better possibility of winning? Matty or Yohan Pino? Matty or AJ Achter?
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  18. #36
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    My beef with Guerrier is 2008 when he had nine losses, mostly in the second half, as the setup man. Nine times he took the mound with a lead in the eighth, and nine times he gave up the lead. The Twins lost to the White Sox in the one game play in.

    Guerrier has been fine this year, though he did lose a late inning lead in his last appearance. I don't have a problem with him being a piece in the bullpen as long as he doesn't become Gardy's automatic go-to late. Nobody who doesn't have shut-down stuff should be granted that role. So while I'm glad Guerrier's stats have been solid so far, I'm concerned Gardy will start going to him with impunity regardless of match-ups, ala A-Rod 2010 ALDS- sorry to bring that up.

  19. #37
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    Guerrier led the league in appearances in 2008. It's possible we see more of Guerrier and Burton in big spots this year. Gardy's got something of a gambler's chase in him, running Escobar out to center the night after his bad mistake, letting Kubel bat sixth right to the end. If Gardy was a football coach, and his team scored a touchdown on the final play, I have no doubt he'd go for 2 for the win instead of kicking the extra point for a tie.

  20. #38
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    I think Gardy has been OK this year, but having said that, his inflexibility hurts the team sometimes. Off the top of my head I can think of three examples:

    1) Reluctance to employ defensive shifts. Yes, there has been more shifting this year, but still seems to be far below the league average.

    2) Reliance on old truisms that are not necessarily true (Lefties will always hit righties better) rather than looking at actual data. It bothers me when he starts a player who is 0 for 18 against a certain pitcher because it is the correct R/L matchup.

    3) Insistence on batting our worst run producer in the 3 hole. Mauer's RBI/AB rate is the worst on the roster, and to put him in this critical place in the lineup is folly.

    Gardy has done some good things this year and the team is playing so much better than the last two years, but I'm ready for the Gardy era to be over.

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  22. #39
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer gil4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notoriousgod71 View Post
    He made the all-star team as a bench coach. A+
    So that's the problem - we just have him playing out of position.

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  24. #40
    Overall, I think Gardy's been fine. The team "feels" better this year because it's a more dynamic team with young, inconsistent players in the lineup who are occasionally terrific. I felt almost cornered into play the contrarian when they signed Kendrys Morales, because it felt to me like a team that just wanted to believe they were buyers as opposed to sellers or rebuilders SO badly. This despite the fact that Nolasco has been mostly a flop so far, the rotation as a whole still can't strike anyone out, and they've been buoyed by a few unlikely breakouts/hot starts (Colabello and Suzuki) come to mind. And they're last in a so-so division with a losing record, so let's keep the praise in check.

    Overall, I'm fine with Gardy's job performance. But I still get the sense that the team has benefits from things he didn't control directly (like Hughes being a bargain and Dozier being on a near 30-HR pace the past 365 days), and he also hasn't suffered as much as he should for some of the questionable decisions, such as the outfield defense situation.

    I don't think this team hits well enough to sustain Willingham in left and a combination of Arcia and various infielders (Nunez and Santana) also playing tons of outifield without the proper pedigree to do so. And people say that's a personnel thing and not a "Gardy" thing, but I totally disagree with that because Gardy's influence is very strong on his need for a 3rd catcher and preference for hording "utility" infielders at the expense of multiple guys that can defend in CF and LF.

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