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Thread: Yohan Pino to start Thursday / Deduno moved to pen

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    To the person who said not Meyer because he is on a pitch count, that is the exact reason to being him up. Get a taste this year, and not have next year be his first. They control him past age thirty already.
    Bingo. Let Randy Johnson be the guide on how to handle Meyer for the long-term. It's past time for him to get himself established against major league hitters with the Twins, while his arm and shoulder are still live. Let Kyle Gibson be the guide on how to handle Meyer for the short-term.

  2. #42
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    This is a really, really interesting franchise. "Next in line" and "deserves a shot" trumps best talent available, developing the players that are young and have a future here. To think I thought, for a second after we signed Morales that we would be done with Minnesota nice and actually make the correct decisions.
    It's not as if Meyer or May were thrown into the towel bin; don't worry the Twins will soon avail themselves of those two's talent, hopefully for a longtime. From my view, what you're neglecting is how the Twins are positioning themselves to maximize their pitching assets. Pino might not be the player that Meyer or May will one day become (or maybe (yes, maybe) are now), but Pino (or Johnson (and even Darnell)) might turn out to be valuable inning eaters or tradeable assets. 1.90 ERA 9ks an inning make an interesting case, in spite of what May has done, no matter the player's pedigree.

    The only certainty about promoting May (or Meyer) over Pino or Johnson is that it would be sexier and please the 'let-the-kids-play' crowd. What's correct, of course, is up for debate.

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  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    It's not as if Meyer or May were thrown into the towel bin; don't worry the Twins will soon avail themselves of those two's talent, hopefully for a longtime. From my view, what you're neglecting is how the Twins are positioning themselves to maximize their pitching assets. Pino might not be the player that Meyer or May will one day become (or maybe (yes, maybe) are now), but Pino (or Johnson (and even Darnell)) might turn out to be valuable inning eaters or tradeable assets. 1.90 ERA 9ks an inning make an interesting case, in spite of what May has done, no matter the player's pedigree.

    The only certainty about promoting May (or Meyer) over Pino or Johnson is that it would be sexier and please the 'let-the-kids-play' crowd. What's correct, of course, is up for debate.
    Is this statement really the "only certainty?" In point of fact, promoting May and Meyer might actually be the prudent and less sexy course of action for the "let's-rebuild-the-right-way-for-the-long-run" crowd, by getting the Twins best and most talented assets for the long term, the major league experience they appear to be more than ready for...thus preparing them for being more competitive and more impactful cogs in the Twins rotation in 2015.
    Last edited by jokin; 06-18-2014 at 01:35 AM.

  5. #44
    Head Moderator MVP glunn's Avatar
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    Moderator note -- please refrain from using phrasing like "the only certainty". This kind of statement does not promote debate and will often be offensive to people who disagree.

  6. #45
    Senior Member Triple-A Thegrin's Avatar
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    Pino certainly has paid his dues. My guess is that May won't be promoted before Meyers. Given his history he needs to prove himself in AAA before they call him up.

  7. #46
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    Pino gets this start while they decide which of Burton, Guerrier, and Deduno to let go, then transitions to the pen when they bring up May? Please?

  8. #47
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    May will likely be the next one up, even if it is to replace Pino after this start. It just was not feasible to get him up Thursday when he pitched Monday.

  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Is this statement really the "only certainty?" In point of fact, promoting May and Meyer might actually be the prudent and less sexy course of action for the "let's-rebuild-the-right-way-for-the-long-run" crowd, by getting the Twins best and most talented assets for the long term, the major league experience they appear to be more than ready for...thus preparing them for being more competitive and more impactful cogs in the Twins rotation in 2015.
    Okay, strip away what the future may hold and what our projections are for M and M, and who right now, is the best starter on the Red Wings? Who has the best line? I get the eagerness to get M and M started in the bigs, get them acclimated so that next season they can hit the ground running. But who right now holds the best record in Rochester? For me, that's who you try next, regardless. That's the hot ticket. And maybe because Pino has been a minor league journeyman he busts out here. But I'm all for thinking that calling up the one who has done the best right now, this year, is the move to make to help us right now.

  10. #49
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    I just dont follow why this is OK. We have virtual agreement about the fact that Meyer will be a better major league pitcher. We have virtual agreement that another two months in AAA is not going to do much of anything for Meyer, except get him closer to or right to his innings limit. Yet we are supposed to be okay with a 29 year old because he is having a good year? "paid his dues", and "deserves a shot" and "don't worry Meyer and May will eventually be up" are really the defense of this move?

    My two cents is we have been conditioned to really, really weird decisions by this franchise. Especially lately.

    I may sound like a broken record here. But this franchise needs to get on the same page and stop this willy nilly approach. Are we a rebuilding team, a contending team? Is our goal 4th place in the AL central? The FO needed to communicate a goal to the fans and coaches about what exactly it is we are trying to do.

    People can criticize Houston's $20M payroll and that is embarrasing. But they at least had a vision and a blueprint. That allowed them to make certain decisions through the lens of building a contending team. They didn't sign Jason Bartlett's or Matt Guerriers. When they needed an outfielder this year, they promoted Jon Singleton, their #3 prospect who is 23 years old, not their version of Chris Parmelee or CC. Here they sit, with the same amount of wins as us (and three more losses). They seem to be moving in the right direction, developing the guys that are going to help them win tomorrow.

    I don't advocate the $20M payroll. Mauer would not allow us to get that low anyway, and I am OK with a vet here or there if they are not blocking anyone of value. But this franchise would be in a much better position if we had a vision and blueprint three years ago.
    Last edited by tobi0040; 06-18-2014 at 08:29 AM.

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  12. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiTownTwinsFan View Post
    Okay, strip away what the future may hold and what our projections are for M and M, and who right now, is the best starter on the Red Wings? Who has the best line? I get the eagerness to get M and M started in the bigs, get them acclimated so that next season they can hit the ground running. But who right now holds the best record in Rochester? For me, that's who you try next, regardless. That's the hot ticket. And maybe because Pino has been a minor league journeyman he busts out here. But I'm all for thinking that calling up the one who has done the best right now, this year, is the move to make to help us right now.

    1-3 years from now, it doesn't matter if we won 74 games or 76 games in 2014. It really doesn't at all. That is why I am unable to "strip away" who is the best for our future. I don't get the premise at all.

    Not to mention Meyer's stuff is more likely to get MLB hitters out. So we are more likely to have more wins with Meyer, IMO
    Last edited by tobi0040; 06-18-2014 at 08:46 AM.

  13. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiTownTwinsFan View Post
    Okay, strip away what the future may hold and what our projections are for M and M, and who right now, is the best starter on the Red Wings? Who has the best line? I get the eagerness to get M and M started in the bigs, get them acclimated so that next season they can hit the ground running. But who right now holds the best record in Rochester? For me, that's who you try next, regardless. That's the hot ticket. And maybe because Pino has been a minor league journeyman he busts out here. But I'm all for thinking that calling up the one who has done the best right now, this year, is the move to make to help us right now.
    Best record?

  14. #52
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Earlier this week Gardy told us that we can't promote the kids (Meyer) because there are roster issues at play and that you can't put all your stock in AAA stats because of the difference in competition, but who do they promote? The guy with the best stats who requires a 40 man move.

    I'm going to go out on a limb and wager Pino's 87 mph fastball doesn't translate so well to the change in competition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    1-3 years from now, it doesn't matter if we won 74 games or 76 games in 2014. It really doesn't at all. That is why I am unable to "strip away" who is the best for our future. I don't get the premise at all.
    I'm sorry, but I think you give the move to the guy who deserves it, and I think Pino does. And if your goal is the future, then make sure those who are the future are ready for it, so why rush them today, when they will likely get a call yet this year to get their feet wet. Why does it have to be right now? The goal was, imo, to move Deduno back to the pen, which, imo, is the right move. So who replaces him tomorrow? May just pitched, so that wasn't going to happen. I think they are being careful with Meyer, which I think they should if we want the impact out of him in the future that we do. So, who pitches tomorrow? Just because you call up Pino to pitch tomorrow doesn't necessarily mean he's here forever. He'll be here in the short term, and if we get some wins out him, great. But he will be replaced eventually as he is what he is. But for right now, he's the hot ticket. You try it because we need someone to pitch tomorrow. I'm not for giving Deduno any more chances to start, at least not right now, so this is the move to make. For tomorrow. Not for the future.

  17. #54
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    This is a really, really interesting franchise. "Next in line" and "deserves a shot" trumps best talent available, developing the players that are young and have a future here. To think I thought, for a second after we signed Morales that we would be done with Minnesota nice and actually make the correct decisions.
    Not to be contrarian here, but Pino has out performed everyone else at AAA by a pretty significant margin... For all the people talking about win now, he probably gives them just that chance.

    I'll say this, he's pitched well enough that he deserves a shot, whether that's as a starter or as a reliever. I have no problem letting him have a few starts to see if he hack it. If he does, then you have a trade chip.

  18. #55
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    If the Twins are going for it this year, they don't have the margin to not put out their best every game. Meyer has the better chance of winning on Thursday.

    When you try to do both win and rebuild, you end up in a cycle of mediocrity. The Twins may have improved to mediocre this year. They may stay mediocre for several more.

  19. #56
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    My hope is that this is a one-start thing. If the Twins really thought Pino was worth a rotation spot, shouldn't he have had one years ago?

    The Twins continue to mismanage their pitching assets. They won't contend so long as it continues. No amount of excuses will change that.

  20. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    Earlier this week Gardy told us that we can't promote the kids (Meyer) because there are roster issues at play and that you can't put all your stock in AAA stats because of the difference in competition, but who do they promote? The guy with the best stats who requires a 40 man move.

    I'm going to go out on a limb and wager Pino's 87 mph fastball doesn't translate so well to the change in competition.
    Is this contradiction in Gardy's statement evidence that really doesn't have as much influence on the roster moves as he gets credit for?

    I predict that Pino will do well in his first start (assuming they get the game in, I think it might be rained out) because the competition will be unfamiliar with his stuff and Pino should be coming in with some confidence.

    I mean, if I got promoted over May and Meyer, I'd feel pretty confident!

  21. #58
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    I think we will see Pino start Thursday, then likely be moved to the bullpen, at the expense of hopefully Guerrier or Burton, then when his spot in the rotation comes up again May gets the start or the Twins shuffle their rotation a little bit to have May start on regular rest.

  22. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivlikejehu View Post
    My hope is that this is a one-start thing. If the Twins really thought Pino was worth a rotation spot, shouldn't he have had one years ago?

    The Twins continue to mismanage their pitching assets. They won't contend so long as it continues. No amount of excuses will change that.

    That is my hope too, a one start thing. They told the guy, you are 29 and have been applying for this job for 9 years. We are going to bring Meyer up but we need to line the days up. Fly your family in, you will be pitching for one game at Target field. Congrats.

    If they move him to the pen after a start I would not be as upset, but then would rather have Tonkin or Achter with the same logic applying.
    Last edited by tobi0040; 06-18-2014 at 09:06 AM.

  23. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    Not to be contrarian here, but Pino has out performed everyone else at AAA by a pretty significant margin... For all the people talking about win now, he probably gives them just that chance.

    I'll say this, he's pitched well enough that he deserves a shot, whether that's as a starter or as a reliever. I have no problem letting him have a few starts to see if he hack it. If he does, then you have a trade chip.
    Let's not get too carried away with 61 IP. Pino has left 91.5% of his runners on base this year. That is masking his numbers quite a bit. Let's put a few runners on base against the Tigers, Rangers, etc. and see if 8.5% of them score with the 87 mph fastball. His average most years ranges from 66-74%

    In 1,093 major league innings, he has a 3.74 ERA with 8.1 K per 9. As a 29 year old journeyman.

    It really should not matter who has a better chance to win Thursday, it should be about developing our best pitching prospect. But for the sake of argument, even if it was about who had the better chance of winning Thursday, my vote would still be Meyer.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...918&position=P

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