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Thread: Kris Johnson Promoted

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuluthFan View Post
    One thing to consider with the Johnson call up is that the rotation spot he would be taking is Nolasco's. If and when Nolasco returns, he would get his spot back. Johnson, or whomever is holding his spot in the rotation, will be sent back to the minors, bullpen or dfa'd when he returns. A possible Myer rotation spot would most likely be given to him for the duration of the season, not just on a temporary basis as the Nolasco DL situation has presented.
    With the all-star break, fixed "spots" are less of an issue. The important thing is there is at least 1 rotation spot that is wide open for auditions, etc., and it has been more or less wide open since May and the Twins have chosen to only audition Deduno and Pino there.

    Maybe the Twins just need a starter for Friday, and they will send Johnson down after that and fit May/Meyer into the permanent rotation after the all-star break... but that's what I heard on these forums last month when Pino first came up (that it was just a spot start to line up May's turn). A few days later, the Twins entered May into a minor league exhibition game for July 13.

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    I won't speculate on why they do what they do, I will only judge them on what they do. So far, we have seen Pino, Deduno, Johnson get starts, and not Meyer and May. That is certainly not how I would gather information about Meyer and help prep him for next year.....

    The Twins have plenty of information. They see Meyer every day and know what's best for him.

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by birdwatcher View Post
    The Twins have plenty of information. They see Meyer every day and know what's best for him.
    Like Hicks? They have a lot of information, that does not mean they can't use more information. We will never agree on this.
    Lighten up Francis....

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post
    I hope you would agree the Twins and Orioles are currently in different situations competitively speaking. Beyond that, Gausman is probably more the exception that proves the rule, and he can say whatever he wants, but I don't buy it has no impact. He had a good run of 3 starts, the yo-yoing started, and he has had a terrible and a meh start. Of course that could be a coincidence. I would still rather yo yo the Pinos and Johnsons of the world rather than May and Meyer.
    Pino is scheduled for his fifth consecutive rotation turn tonight. How is he being yo-yo'd? I know they optioned him in the middle or that stretch, only to recall him immediately afterward for his next turn, but the only guy with any kind of a "claim" on that spot is Deduno, so it was/is effectively a permanent open spot for the rest of the season.

    (Johnson's one start earlier in the year was a yo-yo start, I will grant. We'll see about his Friday start.)

  6. #45
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    In regards to Johnson/Darnell being in the pen, wouldn't it make sense for a team loaded with right-handed starters (Nolasco/Hughes/Gibson/Meyer/May/Stewart/Berrios) to want a left-handed long-relief guy to come in for them when the starter has that rough day and needs to be replaced?

  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by spycake View Post
    With the all-star break, fixed "spots" are less of an issue. The important thing is there is at least 1 rotation spot that is wide open for auditions, etc., and it has been more or less wide open since May and the Twins have chosen to only audition Deduno and Pino there.


    Maybe the Twins just need a starter for Friday, and they will send Johnson down after that and fit May/Meyer into the permanent rotation after the all-star break... but that's what I heard on these forums last month when Pino first came up (that it was just a spot start to line up May's turn). A few days later, the Twins entered May into a minor league exhibition game for July 13.
    I doubt the Twins think about it as holding auditions when they decide which pitcher gets the nod. They pretty much know what they have. And as frustrating as it can be that the FO doesn't show up on Twins Daily to explain all of what goes into their decisions, maybe we should pound on the beat writers to probe this stuff. But keep in mind the last time anybody asked Gardy about the decision, he got absolutely crucified on this site for saying Meyer and May have had ups and downs and weren't quite ready.

  8. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericchri View Post
    In regards to Johnson/Darnell being in the pen, wouldn't it make sense for a team loaded with right-handed starters (Nolasco/Hughes/Gibson/Meyer/May/Stewart/Berrios) to want a left-handed long-relief guy to come in for them when the starter has that rough day and needs to be replaced?
    I don't know. I always figure that if your starter comes out in inning 2, you are pretty much unlikely to win that game, so why worry about your long reliever? That long reliever, imo, would best be someone that can just sop up those innings when needed, and maybe make a spot start here and there. I think worrying about strategy in a game you are probably losing big time is over thinking it. But, I could be wrong on that.
    Lighten up Francis....

  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Like Hicks? They have a lot of information, that does not mean they can't use more information. We will never agree on this.
    Yes, like Hicks, whose problem seemed to be that HE didn't know what was best for him.

  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by birdwatcher View Post
    The Twins have plenty of information. They see Meyer every day and know what's best for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Like Hicks? They have a lot of information, that does not mean they can't use more information. We will never agree on this.
    Like Gibson? In 2013, they waited to promote him until almost every other non-prospect option had been exhausted- many of whom had been up and down and failed multiple times. And after Gibson finally got his feet wet, the Twins still had him well back in the SP depth chart weeds.....they were willing to re-sign Pelfrey in favor of Gibbie, as well as continue a failed pursuit of another SP arm instead, and Gibson was clearly even behind Worley and Diamond well into Spring Training. Can we say with a straight face that the Twins knew what was best for Gibson?--- it seems he had no choice but to succeed, in spite of what the Twins information and thoughts were about him.
    Last edited by jokin; 07-10-2014 at 11:05 AM.

  11. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    See Mike's post above yours, he stated the case quite well for getting your best players playing at the highest level.

    No team, if properly constructed, should ever have the need for 13 pitchers on its roster, except for doubleheaders. And it just seem like common sense, even Rob Antony agrees, that since the difference between AAA and MLB is significant, there's really no substitute for having multiple opportunities for your best prospects to get the necessary MLB experience in order to establish themselves.
    I won't argue much because I want both Meyer and May up and I don't really agree with keeping them down in general, though I am less offended by not calling them up for one start before the all star game. Plus May is hurt so it is relatively moot.

    A "properly constructed" team wouldn't have two rookie starters either, so that may necessitate 13 pitchers to properly protect them.
    Papers...business papers.

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  13. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by birdwatcher View Post
    The Twins have plenty of information. They see Meyer every day and know what's best for him.
    I will concede they have a lot more information. But I am not willing to give them a complete pass because they do. The guy has 300 IP under his belt with a 3.06 ERA and a k rate of 10.4 per 9. I am not sure what another 2, 4, or 6 starts are going to do for him. We know his stuff is the best, his overall numbers are by far the best, he projects as the best starter we have in AA or AAA (most agree on this, May might get some votes).

    But lets also not discount other factors, like public relations (futures game), payroll (super 2 deadlines, etc.). These are factors the Twins and other teams use regarding when to promote a player and when not to. So it is not quite as cut and dry and "the Twins know what is best for him".

    One could argue holding him back and reducing his pay is not good for him, for example.

  14. #52

    I'm hoping they bring Meyer up to the bullpen not to start right now.

    I agree the Twins will option Pino off the roster after todays start to put Johnson on it for Friday and to keep Pino on his rotation until he can come back on the 21st. I was hoping the Twins would release a bullpen guy like Matt Guerrier, 35 years old and his pitching spots in the bullpen rotation in my opinion should go to a developmental guy like Meyer or May. Get's there feet wet and get them in game situations where there is less pressure than starting the full game.
    The reason I suggest Meyer is he is on a pitch count already so they are already monitoring his total number of pitches and your waisting bullets in the minor leagues on AAA guys that many will not see the majors. Meyer needs major league experience if he is going to be in the plans for 2015 and 2016 beyond.
    There is no replacement or substitution for major league experience so for me it would seem to make sense to get Meyer some experience this year. His fastball to me would look pretty dang good coming out of the pen. Besides Perkins we do not have another guy that throws that hard coming out of the pen.
    From Lavelle's Tweet though it sounds like the Twins have no intentions of bringing up Meyer this year.

  15. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    they were willing to re-sign Pelfrey in favor of Gibbie, as well as continue a failed pursuit of another SP arm instead, and Gibson was clearly even behind Worley and Diamond well into Spring Training.
    This is a good example of what I was getting at. In Gibson's case, regardless of when he came up in 2013, the fact that he came up and struggled informed our offseason decision-making (re-sign Pelf, retain Correia, Diamond, Worley, etc.).

    Had Gibson's 2013 transition gone smoother, it wouldn't necessarily have guaranteed him a spot in 2014 but greater confidence in him could have kept Pelf off the team, or allowed us to make an early judgment cut on Diamond or Worley and fill their spot with a Rule 5 choice. Maybe despite Gibson's struggles, we saw first-hand that he was talented but fatigued and/or he didn't have much to prove in AAA anymore and thus didn't push hard for an additional FA starter (i.e. Garza/Santana).

    If we don't give Meyer or May much of a chance in 2014, we'll pretty much have no choice but to prepare for the worst-case scenario this offseason. We could leave real prospects unprotected as a result, and/or misallocate resources in trade/FA, by delaying their MLB debuts into 2015 (or even less meaningfully into September 2014).

    Now, I know that no 2-3 month stretch would guarantee them a job in the spring, much less guarantee they would be successful or not, but we've seen countless times over the past few seasons how hard it can be to transition from AAA to MLB. Having some data on that in regards to Meyer and May can only help the Twins this offseason and into 2015 (not to mention help the pitchers themselves, who judging by their Futures Game assignments are apparently two of the best current/future performing starters in the high minors right now).

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  17. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by spycake View Post
    If we don't give Meyer or May much of a chance in 2014, we'll pretty much have no choice but to prepare for the worst-case scenario this offseason. We could leave real prospects unprotected as a result, and/or misallocate resources in trade/FA, by delaying their MLB debuts into 2015 (or even less meaningfully into September 2014).).


    Completely agree here. We have seen some misleading performances in September due to a small sample. Parmelee and Revere come to mind.

    We are in last place. I would rather test out potential future rotation guys over seeing which future fill in fares better.

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  19. #55
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    Meyer missed part of the 2013 season with a shoulder injury, and the Twins have stated he won't be asked to pitch a full season this year. I don't know why people want him promoted to bullpen duty. I say, let him finish out the year in AAA.

  20. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    Duke Welker who we acquired for Morneau then traded back to Pittsburg for Johnson was Designated for assignment. food for thought but not too relevant other than to point out that TR got the better of that deal.
    I do believe that Johnson could be a member of our bullpen and a spot starter for us. He has value. The question is do the Twins sign Deunsing to a 3 year contract after this season before he reaches free agency? The money's there, he's earned it and is from Nebraska why not.
    Welker was DFA'd because he underwent Tommy John surgery a week ago.

  21. #57
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    Baring injury/meltdown: Meyer will be up almost immediately after the all-star break, I know this as a fact.
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald


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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Baring injury/meltdown: Meyer will be up almost immediately after the all-star break, I know this as a fact.
    I hope you are right. I did notice they gave Meyer 99 pitches last outing after an 80 pitch count limit most of the year. Hopefully they want him up here without a limit and they want to get him for most of the rest of the year.

  23. #59
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    I'll be honest in that I'm not sure Meyer will be up at all this year except in a September callup situation. He's on an innings limit, and has been somewhat underwhelming of late in AAA (last start excluded). He's also not on the 40 man. I think he's going to get added in September and get some ML pen work once his limit is up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    I'll be honest in that I'm not sure Meyer will be up at all this year except in a September callup situation. He's on an innings limit, and has been somewhat underwhelming of late in AAA (last start excluded). He's also not on the 40 man. I think he's going to get added in September and get some ML pen work once his limit is up.
    This 40 man argument is frustrating to me.

    Delaying the promotion of literally your best pitching prospect reaching the majors since 2006 because you may lose Pedro Florimon, Edgar Ibarra, Logan Darnell, etc. seems like a real odd decision to me. Or, why not trade Corriea or Willingham 20 days early to clear a spot? My logical side thinks teams would be willing to give up more if they are going to get the said player for additional time. Corrreia to the Yankees right now seems like it would make sense (Tanaka to the DL, etc.)
    Last edited by tobi0040; 07-10-2014 at 01:27 PM.

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