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Thread: Trade opportunities -players dropping like flies

  1. #81
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    Cardinals claimed George Kottaras. I guess they prefer him over Pierzynski and Buck.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgenswest View Post
    Cardinals claimed George Kottaras. I guess they prefer him over Pierzynski and Buck.
    I'm disappointed and wondering why the Twins didn't claim him, since he went to the NL, they obviously had no interest. If they were going to move Suzuki, Kottaras would have been a nice part-time caretaker until Pinto is recalled.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
    I think there's a pretty good chance that Suzuki, after the season he's having, wouldn't want to take an extension mid-season from the Twins when he could sign with a real contender in the offseason.

    I also don't think it's a great idea to sign Suzuki to an extension at his all-time high value.
    You just have to make it complicated, don't you.

  4. #84
    Senior Member Triple-A h2oface's Avatar
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    The world is a twitter prospect world now. Unfortunate. I have never seen how it is beneficial to trade ones best players for prospects. The Cubs and Kansas City have been doing that for years......... and the future never arrives. A team is not made of prospects, it is made of players who are no longer prospects. Those that keep some of the core (including Billy B) add prospects, and there is a good mix that gels and can grow quickly into a champion. Champions are not made from always selling the best players for a hope.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by h2oface View Post
    The world is a twitter prospect world now. Unfortunate. I have never seen how it is beneficial to trade ones best players for prospects. The Cubs and Kansas City have been doing that for years......... and the future never arrives. A team is not made of prospects, it is made of players who are no longer prospects. Those that keep some of the core (including Billy B) add prospects, and there is a good mix that gels and can grow quickly into a champion. Champions are not made from always selling the best players for a hope.
    The Cubs are bad because they're the Cubs. The other teams you mention or alluded to are generally low budget teams trying to get something for a player they can't resign, and some (Miami, Tampa, Oakland among others) have been pretty successful.

    The counter-truism to yours is that not making major changes to a losing franchise just preserves a culture of losing. And if the rest of the league's past behavior is any gauge, the Twins have already made one major error on the side of caution in that regard with the retention of Gardenhire.

    With any luck, Ryan is making personnel decisions on a case-by-case basis to improve the future of one of the worst 25 man rosters in baseball, and not just going by a philosophy of either hanging onto or dumping almost everyone.

  6. #86
    Senior Member Triple-A h2oface's Avatar
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    I think that Suzuki's leadership for a young staff is very integral. Pinto is expendable. I feel Suzuki is the one to take the Twins to the future catchers, who I believe are Stuart Turner (Fort Meyers) or more probably Mitch Garver (Cedar Rapids).
    Last edited by h2oface; 07-11-2014 at 07:24 PM.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    The Cubs are bad because they're the Cubs.
    Well, I can never go with a glittering generality about any team, and I do not agree the Cubs are bad because they're the Cubs.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    The counter-truism to yours is that not making major changes to a losing franchise just preserves a culture of losing. And if the rest of the league's past behavior is any gauge, the Twins have already made one major error on the side of caution in that regard with the retention of Gardenhire.
    I certainly don't claim a "truism" in my musings, and I thought Gardenhire should have been gone in 2007. I don't believe I was making a statement that major moves shouldn't be made. I was trying to refer specifically about trading the most integral parts of your team for the unknown hope of prospects, always prospects..........

    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    With any luck, Ryan is making personnel decisions on a case-by-case basis to improve the future of one of the worst 25 man rosters in baseball, and not just going by a philosophy of either hanging onto or dumping almost everyone.
    I commend you for having faith in Ryan, as I can't separate him from Gardenhire, as they seem joined at the hip.

  8. #88
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    It's hard to see anybody getting very excited about what the Twins could probably get for Suzuki. He's had a nice little run, but most teams won't overpay for a guy who's almost 31 and likely to regress.

    If they don't move him it's not the end of the franchise. But if the Twins keep running him out there for two or three years while Pinto rots in AAA and they wait and hope for one of two long shots to develop into a good MLB catcher, well, that sounds like planned mediocrity, which unfortunately has a high probability of success.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    If one loves Suzuki so much, why not get something for him now and then sign him in the offseason. There is no other smart move to make with regard to Suzuki. Sure, there is no guarantee then, but that should hardly matter if getting a top 10ish prospect from the Cardinals could be at stake.

    Willingham, Morales, Suzuki, Correia, Fien, and Duensing would be the six I would be looking to trade.
    Just want to add that this list is spot on. Twins could realistically trade all 6.

    This will be a telling trade deadline for the Twins. I imagine they are in a bit of a bind. They could be aggressive and sell off the pieces but they also have (perceived) business considerations. With the all star game this season they will have no more gimmicks to fall back upon for ticket sales. I wonder if they see value in trying to have a semi-respectable finish to the season (low to mid 70s wins) as having value in retaining a season ticket base. If they sell off 6 guys that could make it more difficult.

    My take is there really would be little difference between 75 and 68 wins as far as ticket sales would go. Two things ultimately draw fans, winning or exciting young players. I would go for the second option, dump the vets, get whatever prospects possible, call up the kids, and let the excitement grow organically.
    Papers...business papers.

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  11. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    It's hard to see anybody getting very excited about what the Twins could probably get for Suzuki. He's had a nice little run, but most teams won't overpay for a guy who's almost 31 and likely to regress.

    If they don't move him it's not the end of the franchise. But if the Twins keep running him out there for two or three years while Pinto rots in AAA and they wait and hope for one of two long shots to develop into a good MLB catcher, well, that sounds like planned mediocrity, which unfortunately has a high probability of success.
    I think he legitimately gets a B prospect right now, which is a nice return for a fa signed to a one year deal. Twins comparable would be Thorpe, Rosario or Polanco.
    Papers...business papers.

  12. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by h2oface View Post
    The world is a twitter prospect world now. Unfortunate. I have never seen how it is beneficial to trade ones best players for prospects. The Cubs and Kansas City have been doing that for years......... and the future never arrives. A team is not made of prospects, it is made of players who are no longer prospects. Those that keep some of the core (including Billy B) add prospects, and there is a good mix that gels and can grow quickly into a champion. Champions are not made from always selling the best players for a hope.
    I think you make a great point. I love prospects as much as the next person, but I think people vastly overrate them in the current climate.

    That said, it is the right move to trade guys in the last year of their deal if they don't have a future with the team (Willingham, Correia and eventually Morales) or to move bullpen arms if the return is enough (Fien). Suzuki is the tricky one for all the reasons discussed.
    Papers...business papers.

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  14. #92
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    Every other team knows the Twins have several veterans with expiring contracts. The perceived negotiating leverage in trading Suzuki (and the others) is impacted by that fact.

  15. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwak View Post
    Every other team knows the Twins have several veterans with expiring contracts. The perceived negotiating leverage in trading Suzuki (and the others) is impacted by that fact.
    Yeah, there's a lot that goes into leverage. The big thing the Twins have in their favor is that Suzuki, Morales, and Willingham in particular appear to be impact players for whomever needs them. Suzuki in particular given the position of need factor should give the Twins enough leverage to get a prospect on the low end of the top 100 I think. That and he's cheap. Not quite as sure on the other two as their value is tied to their bats, so they need to hit well.

    Where I don't see a ton of leverage is for guys like KC, Guerrier, and Burton. I could see Fein generating a nice return given his level of play, but still more in the higher risk high reward type prospect. I suspect a pitching desperate team might trade a Sulbaran/Gilmartin type guy for KC, but it's going to have to be a team who has been yo-yoing guys in the 4/5 spots of their rotation in order to stay in the race.

  16. #94
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    Thoughts on Suzuki from Viva El Birdos

    http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2014/7/1...r-molina-twins

  17. #95
    The #1 THOUGHT in all this trade talk. Someone HAS to want any of the players the Twins have. And when we are dealing with potential free agents, the Twins have three choices: Keep this season and lose for nothing, discuss resigning them now rather than later, or trading for something, anything. The worth of a potential free agent to a new team is a low-end minor league guy or someone who is out of 40-man roster options next season. So you get an unproven guy with maybe some upside, or someone that no longer has a spot in the organization that you could probably claim thru waivers next year if you wish or sign as a minor league free agent yourself. What will be more interesting, if the Twins don't make any/many moves, is what happens when they put players on waivers in August to potentially clear their contracts. Do they just let them go, take a rookie or A-ball prospect, or let them block guys you really want to see for potential play in 2015 and beyond!
    Joel Thingvall
    www.thingvall.com
    rosterman at www.twinscards.com

  18. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgenswest View Post
    Thoughts on Suzuki from Viva El Birdos

    http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2014/7/1...r-molina-twins
    More fans overrating their own prospects. I'm as guilty as anyone admittedly. If the Cardinals actually do acquire Suzuki, it would be fun to check back and see the response based on what they are assuming the cost in prospects would be.
    Papers...business papers.

  19. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    It's hard to see anybody getting very excited about what the Twins could probably get for Suzuki. He's had a nice little run, but most teams won't overpay for a guy who's almost 31 and likely to regress.

    If they don't move him it's not the end of the franchise. But if the Twins keep running him out there for two or three years while Pinto rots in AAA and they wait and hope for one of two long shots to develop into a good MLB catcher, well, that sounds like planned mediocrity, which unfortunately has a high probability of success.
    But Bombo, anyone looking to acquire Suzuki is only doing so on the basis of a 2.5 month rental, not based on his current age. It's better to analyze his trading value based on what he's worth as an experienced player at a position of need in that time frame alone. I don't know what comps are out there, but I would think he would have more perceived value to a team with a huge need at catcher coupled with a GM, field manager or coach who has past ties with Suzuki- (or the Dodgers, who apparently love overpaying for catchers ).

  20. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    It's hard to see anybody getting very excited about what the Twins could probably get for Suzuki. He's had a nice little run, but most teams won't overpay for a guy who's almost 31 and likely to regress.

    If they don't move him it's not the end of the franchise. But if the Twins keep running him out there for two or three years while Pinto rots in AAA and they wait and hope for one of two long shots to develop into a good MLB catcher, well, that sounds like planned mediocrity, which unfortunately has a high probability of success.
    And that's the reality of the situation if Gardy is still making out the daily lineup card over the life of Suzuki's possible extension, Suzuki would play as much as possible, no matter the numbers, look no further than Gardy purposely finding as many PAs as possible for Doumit last year.

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