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Thread: Pino Optioned

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    I'm not disagreeing with you here. That might be the best role for him as well. The question at hand is whether or not that 5 start stretch is sustainable... and that's on the coaches/scouts to determine.
    That's been my opinion all along. He's been terrific this year, both in AAA and with the Twins, at getting first inning 1-2-3 up and down results. As a cheap pitching alternative with 2 options remaining, he offers some potential as a spot starter or relief man for the next couple years, but likely operating as a shuttle player much as he is now.

    But I disagree with your final conclusion, at this point, Pino's own performance will answer the question at hand, not the scouts or coaches. As long as he can walk his pitching tightrope, he stays, given his minor league track record, it seems most unlikely that he can sustain himself on that tightrope over the long-term. Guys like Walters and Albers had similar stuff, but were younger. Craftiness keeps those guys and Pino employed in the high minors, but never seriously regarded as prospects. What Pino did in AAA in 2014 that separated him from his past years in terms of LOB% and BABIP would tell the average scout from another team that it was a one-off, not that he had trade value. And his major league peripherals fly in the face of who he is career-wise as a minor league journeyman.
    Last edited by jokin; 07-12-2014 at 11:46 AM.

  2. #62
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    Interesting fact: when the Twins trade 25 year old Pino in 2009, he had a virtually identical line at Rochester to his 2014 Rochester line.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by spycake View Post
    Interesting fact: when the Twins trade 25 year old Pino in 2009, he had a virtually identical line at Rochester to his 2014 Rochester line.
    Now I know why he got the nod over the others...."Consistency".

  4. #64
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spycake View Post
    Yup! Either one day in MLB... or just move to Canada.
    MLB is the better option, you know with the death panels up here and all.

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  6. #65
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    Personally I don't want to see Pino moved to the pen for the same reason I don't think he should take a spot from May or if it is a long term opening from Meyer. The Twins have a bunch of relievers that have potential that they should look at this year. Tonkin, Pressly, Ibarra, Achter, Guerra, Oliveros, Hamburger, Cole Johnson. Many of these guys are on the 40 man or will be rule 5 eligible this year. Why we would be giving a 30 yo journeyman a spot over one of the above I don't understand.

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxtung View Post
    Personally I don't want to see Pino moved to the pen for the same reason I don't think he should take a spot from May or if it is a long term opening from Meyer. The Twins have a bunch of relievers that have potential that they should look at this year. Tonkin, Pressly, Ibarra, Achter, Guerra, Oliveros, Hamburger, Cole Johnson. Many of these guys are on the 40 man or will be rule 5 eligible this year. Why we would be giving a 30 yo journeyman a spot over one of the above I don't understand.
    Because he is pitching better. The Twins are better off with a player who is pitching well now, than a player that may (or may not) pitch better in the future.

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thegrin View Post
    Because he is pitching better. The Twins are better off with a player who is pitching well now, than a player that may (or may not) pitch better in the future.
    On the potentially win a few more games in a lost season or potentially win more games in future seasons when you might be competitive, you can firmly slot me into the latter camp. You don't agree. That's life.

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  10. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thegrin View Post
    Because he is pitching better. The Twins are better off with a player who is pitching well now, than a player that may (or may not) pitch better in the future.
    So in June 2015, if Sano is hitting well at Rochester but Deibinson Romero is still there and hitting maybe a little bit better than Sano, you would be OK with Romero getting the call? And should Romero keep the job indefinitely with a 93 OPS+ (like Pino's current 93 ERA+)?

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  12. #69
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer gil4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spycake View Post
    Yup! Either one day in MLB... or just move to Canada.
    Cool. Can I choose which one do?

  13. #70
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gil4 View Post
    Cool. Can I choose which one do?
    As long as your not a Zamboni driver or make curling ice you should be good to go on option B.

  14. #71
    Senior Member All-Star Badsmerf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thegrin View Post
    Because he is pitching better. The Twins are better off with a player who is pitching well now, than a player that may (or may not) pitch better in the future.
    He's gotten ok results thus far. You really think it's sustainable? I don't. I certainly hope the twins don't, and many other posters don't. Why do you think a career aaaa pitcher is a better option than a young guy without giving them a chance. We know what we have in pino, and it isn't a guy that should be on a 25 man roster a competing team.

    I want to win as much as anybody. In order to do that the twins prospects have to develop and be given shots to succeed. You seen to be under the impression that young guys can't succeed right away. You are wrong. It happens every year. Even not highly regarded prospects can come up and dominate (neshek is a good example).

    Continuing to run out guys with marginal talent will only give marginal results. Plus, young players generally need an adjustment period. While they can be successful right away, most players need to adjust. Leaving a player in aaa when they are to that point does them no good. Gibson, May, Meyer, parmelee and even Hendriks have all been kept in aaa too long in my opinion.

    You don't learn to be successful in the mlb playing in aaa.

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  16. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badsmerf View Post
    He's gotten ok results thus far. You really think it's sustainable? I don't. I certainly hope the twins don't, and many other posters don't. Why do you think a career aaaa pitcher is a better option than a young guy without giving them a chance. We know what we have in pino, and it isn't a guy that should be on a 25 man roster a competing team.

    I want to win as much as anybody. In order to do that the twins prospects have to develop and be given shots to succeed. You seen to be under the impression that young guys can't succeed right away. You are wrong. It happens every year. Even not highly regarded prospects can come up and dominate (neshek is a good example).

    Continuing to run out guys with marginal talent will only give marginal results. Plus, young players generally need an adjustment period. While they can be successful right away, most players need to adjust. Leaving a player in aaa when they are to that point does them no good. Gibson, May, Meyer, parmelee and even Hendriks have all been kept in aaa too long in my opinion.

    You don't learn to be successful in the mlb playing in aaa.
    +1 (regarding the last sentence, the Twins brass has said as much on the record).
    Last edited by jokin; 07-16-2014 at 09:15 AM.

  17. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badsmerf View Post
    Gibson, May, Meyer, parmelee and even Hendriks have all been kept in aaa too long in my opinion.
    I generally agree with you, but Hendriks and Parmelee aren't great examples. Both of those guys debuted at ages 22-23 in September 2011 after little or no time in AAA, and opened the next season in MLB too. I prefer not to yo-yo guys quite so much as what followed in 2012, but generally I think these guys got timely chances commensurate with their prospect status. (Both were first aggressively promoted in 2011 under the Bill Smith regime -- I do wonder if part of the yo-yo effect in 2012+ was TR torn between his traditional prospect conservatism vs. honoring the Smith promotions?)

    Gibson was kept in AAA maybe a month too long, I suppose; annoying at the time but not a big deal in the end. (His 2014 season does illustrate a problem with demanding "consistency" as a condition for promotion -- many players, even good MLB ones, are not all that consistent.)

    Meyer and May are already 3 weeks past Gibson's promotion schedule, so hopefully they are up soon, with an adequate chance to perform before next season.

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