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Thread: Fangraphs on Cederoth

  1. #1
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    Fangraphs on Cederoth

    he is one of the arms featured, in some detail, in this article:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/prosp...s-in-the-appy/
    Lighten up Francis....

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    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Yeah, this is very well done. I haven't looked at all the video yet... I think he'll move to the bullpen pretty quickly, but like that he's getting a shot to start! I'll never have a problem with doing that.

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    Ya, at work, so I can't watch teh video either yet.....
    Lighten up Francis....

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    Senior Member All-Star Badsmerf's Avatar
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    Wow that delivery is bad. Sounds like he has some good stuff in that FB and SL. Hopefully the Twins find a way to get through to this guy. They really haven't had much success with these types, so I wouldn't hold my breath.
    Do or do not. There is no try.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    Yeah, this is very well done. I haven't looked at all the video yet... I think he'll move to the bullpen pretty quickly, but like that he's getting a shot to start! I'll never have a problem with doing that.
    I don't get the whole drafting of college relief pitchers and converting them to starters thing. College coaches aren't stupid, they've got these guys in the bullpen for a reason. Has that ever worked for the Twins?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badsmerf View Post
    Wow that delivery is bad. Sounds like he has some good stuff in that FB and SL. Hopefully the Twins find a way to get through to this guy. They really haven't had much success with these types, so I wouldn't hold my breath.
    Isn't the usual protocol for a team to let a new draft pick finish the first year with his usual mechanics and then try to make the needed adjustments over instructs? I wonder if the Twins have plans for him this offseason.
    Papers...business papers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Einstein View Post
    I don't get the whole drafting of college relief pitchers and converting them to starters thing. College coaches aren't stupid, they've got these guys in the bullpen for a reason. Has that ever worked for the Twins?
    Well, they may not be stupid, but they certainly are self serving. Clearly they abuse college arms, making them throw too often and too many pitches, but another issue is that guys who need work on their mechanics probably don't get the time to work on them. Big time programs aren't going to waste a season trying to get Cederoth to work on his delivery or developing his changeup.

    I've been critical of the Twins style of development often, but if getting his mechanics consistant and developing his changeup are his biggest hurdles, those do seem to be the strengths of this organization's pitching coaches. At least in the minor leagues.
    Last edited by nicksaviking; 07-16-2014 at 09:34 AM.

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    Senior Member All-Star Badsmerf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    mechanics consistant and developing his changeup are his biggest hurdles, those do seem to be the strengths of this organization's pitching coaches. At least in the minor leagues.
    Really? Do you have any examples of a guy they "cleaned up?" Because I can think of several guys that they tried and failed. I'm not knocking them for continuing to try this approach, because you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. At this point it is just an interesting story.
    Do or do not. There is no try.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badsmerf View Post
    Really? Do you have any examples of a guy they "cleaned up?" Because I can think of several guys that they tried and failed. I'm not knocking them for continuing to try this approach, because you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. At this point it is just an interesting story.
    I view it as a way to see how their velocity changes between 20 and 100 pitch outings. Some guys react differently. I remember Glen Perkins as an 90 mph guy as a starter and he dials it up to 97 on occasion. While common to see velo go up from starter to closer, that is a ton of velocity improvement.

    Even if the grand plan is to move a guy like this back to the pen, I would think 100 pitches an outing would give him the chance at developing the 2nd and 3rd pitches, which would be beneficial to him in the future no matter where he is.
    Last edited by tobi0040; 07-16-2014 at 11:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badsmerf View Post
    Really? Do you have any examples of a guy they "cleaned up?" Because I can think of several guys that they tried and failed. I'm not knocking them for continuing to try this approach, because you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. At this point it is just an interesting story.
    Well from the last "reliever-to-starter" draft in 2012, it seemed they worked to get Melotakis, Duffy, Baxendale and Rogers more mechanically sound. I guess someone who has seen these guys in person would be more of an expert, but I thought they did improve in this area quite a bit. Though it clearly came at the expense of their velocity/strikeout potential.

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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Joe A. Preusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Einstein View Post
    I don't get the whole drafting of college relief pitchers and converting them to starters thing. College coaches aren't stupid, they've got these guys in the bullpen for a reason. Has that ever worked for the Twins?
    I believe our professional coaches will have much more success teaching a 3rd and/or 4th pitch to a kid than a college coach. That is basically the difference for these guys, 2 dominant pitches instead of the 3 or 4 you need to start. What's the worst that could happen, they can't do it and we get another young, cheap, good reliever?

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    Joe, the worst that can happen is that they passed on a guy with more upside. Passing on guys that haven't "proven" they are just relievers*. I think that is where some of the disagreement on these boards comes. Oh, and if they are very likely to end up a reliever, not moving them fast while healthy, and instead moving them slowly (increasing the odds they are hurt in the minors, not the majors).

    *not, I said that with "" around the word proven.....
    Lighten up Francis....

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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    Well from the last "reliever-to-starter" draft in 2012, it seemed they worked to get Melotakis, Duffy, Baxendale and Rogers more mechanically sound. I guess someone who has seen these guys in person would be more of an expert, but I thought they did improve in this area quite a bit. Though it clearly came at the expense of their velocity/strikeout potential.
    Baxendale and Rogers were starters in college. I'm sure they had mechanical things as any college pitcher would, but they were starters.

    Melotakis, in talking with pitching coach Gary Lucas, has added some sharpness to a couple of his pitches as a starter. He is now going back to the bullpen.

    Duffey has transitioned quite well into the starting role. He also has improved since moving up to AA earlier this year. Who knows if he'll get all the way to the big leagues as a starter or not, but that can be said with any pitcher drafted.

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  16. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe A. Preusser View Post
    I believe our professional coaches will have much more success teaching a 3rd and/or 4th pitch to a kid than a college coach. That is basically the difference for these guys, 2 dominant pitches instead of the 3 or 4 you need to start. What's the worst that could happen, they can't do it and we get another young, cheap, good reliever?
    Agreed, there really is no downside to getting them innings.

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