Minnesota Twins News & Rumors Forum
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 76

Thread: The Future of Trevor Plouffe

  1. #21
    Senior Member MVP
    Posts
    5,713
    Like
    1,159
    Liked 564 Times in 369 Posts
    Ya, he's around league average. I see no issue with that, until something pushes him aside. And I don't think that happens at the beginning of next year.
    Lighten up Francis....

  2. #22
    Senior Member Triple-A whydidnt's Avatar
    Posts
    348
    Like
    17
    Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    This. Trevor Plouffe is the type of guy you're happy to have on the team until something better comes along. You don't actively pursue a replacement unless something really great is available. He's a league average player and should man third until Sano is ready to take his place.

    At that point, trade him or turn him into a utility player depending on how Sano looks.
    And if all you have is a bunch of average players, the best you can ever hope for is to be an average team. Not railing on Plouffe, just believe in higher expectations. At this point, it's probably as good as its going to get with him. Winning teams have better than average players at most positions.

  3. #23
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
    Posts
    3,576
    Like
    199
    Liked 532 Times in 346 Posts
    Blog Entries
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    Trevor Plouffe is 28 with a career triple slash of: .241/.304/.411 (.714) in 1685 appearances. There is no disputing the general and total averageness of these statistics. It's not going to get any better for him.
    Brian Dozier is less than a year younger and his career triple slash is: .241/.311/.400 (.714) in 1387 PAs and some, including myself, were saying he should go to the All-Star game. Granted, he plays second, not third, but I don't think we can unequivocally say that Plouffe has reached his peak. I think he will do well after the All-Star break and make a case for being a starter no matter what Sano does in the next 10-12 months. That is, moving and starting at another position if Sano forces himself into the majors (which I believe will happen).

  4. This user likes stringer bell's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    70charger (07-17-2014)

  5. #24
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    125
    Like
    0
    Liked 9 Times in 5 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    Sano may not stick at 3B and I have seen too many Mike Lamb's and Tony Bautista's of the world to toss Plouffe to the side. It is a tough position to find a bat even comparable to Plouffe's. Not to mention he should always be in the lineup against lefties.
    Reality check... Plouffe's rankings among Major League third basemen: OPS (14th), batting average (15th), RBI (11th)... He's middle of the pack in nearly every category... Average... It's not tough to find a bat comparable to his... In fact, Plouffe and Eduardo Escobar are nearly identical in every offensive category, with the exception of Escobar having a higher batting average and Plouffe having more RBI... You only need to look down the bench to find someone comparable...

  6. #25
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,729
    Like
    870
    Liked 847 Times in 543 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    Brian Dozier is less than a year younger and his career triple slash is: .241/.311/.400 (.714) in 1387 PAs and some, including myself, were saying he should go to the All-Star game. Granted, he plays second, not third, but I don't think we can unequivocally say that Plouffe has reached his peak. I think he will do well after the All-Star break and make a case for being a starter no matter what Sano does in the next 10-12 months. That is, moving and starting at another position if Sano forces himself into the majors (which I believe will happen).
    I just erased much of my post, as you said it all and better, well done.

    I'll just say, Plouffe is fine for now and his new mature approach at the plate is in complete contrast to year's past and possibly augurs well for the near future. There's a good chance he posts a career year before FA in 2018, giving the Twins an excellent sell-high opportunity.

    The team is going to need some veteran presence during this upcoming phase, he's going to be cheaper than bringing in some rent-a-vet- he might make an excellent part-time partner with someone like Arcia- who has an OPS split differential of 200+ points in the minors and 155 points in the majors (an ugly .612 OPS vs. LHP career, .454 OPS vs LHP in 2014)

  7. #26
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,129
    Like
    101
    Liked 271 Times in 195 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by gmarais66 View Post
    Reality check... Plouffe's rankings among Major League third basemen: OPS (14th), batting average (15th), RBI (11th)... He's middle of the pack in nearly every category... Average... It's not tough to find a bat comparable to his... In fact, Plouffe and Eduardo Escobar are nearly identical in every offensive category, with the exception of Escobar having a higher batting average and Plouffe having more RBI... You only need to look down the bench to find someone comparable...
    I said he is average or above average for the position. 14th, 15th, and 11th seems exactly where i said he was.

    Which player ahead of him is available on the free agent market and within the Twins price range that is very easy to replace? Prior to Plouffe, the fact is we have not had an average or above average 3B since Koskie.

    Of the 13 people ahead of him in OPS, I see 3 veterans under contract and a whole bunch of players that are young and controlled for years.

    Notice the drop off between Plouffe (.727 OPS) and 19th, Matt Dominguez .652 OPS. I don't want to get into the bottom third of this list again.

    Escobars career OPS is .646. If you think his .720 this year is going to stick you may be setting yourself up for dissapointment.
    Last edited by tobi0040; 07-17-2014 at 09:20 AM.

  8. #27
    Senior Member MVP
    Posts
    5,713
    Like
    1,159
    Liked 564 Times in 369 Posts
    I think looking only at career slash lines ignores an obvious change in the last year for Dozier, and the numbers are a lot better at 2B than 3B.

    I really want him to learn corner OF, and be a super utility guy when Sano is here. But, maybe that isn't as easy as it sounds.
    Lighten up Francis....

  9. #28
    Totally agree. It would seem to be the consensus that Sano is a go at 3rd. Probably 2016 in my opinion. This means 1 year to hold down the fort which Trevor is certainly capable of. The question going into not only 2016 but next year is the health of Sano. Can he grind out 150+games a year at 3rd base with his most recent injury? Let us hope so!!!!! Nobody will mistake Trevor for all star 3b material but he is certainly not the worst either. In addition if the Twins feel that Sano cant handle the work load at 3b as a regular but is hitting the cover off of the ball then you need a stop gap to fill in when Sano isnt at 3rd. Hopefully this is not the case but is a possibility. GO TWINS

    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    I think you offer him arb and hold on to him for at least one more year. Sano is going to need some time in the minors next year anyways, so Plouffe holds down the spot for 2015. If this improvements are for real and continue, he'll have more value next offseason than presently. That also gives the Twins an insurance policy of Sano struggles next season.

  10. #29
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,129
    Like
    101
    Liked 271 Times in 195 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5
    [QUOTE=gmarais66;256679]In my humble opinion, I don't think Plouffe and Kaline should be mentioned in the same paragraph. Plouffe is about as average as average can be. He's a filler, a place holder.QUOTE]

    Plouffe is not Al Kaline. But that is the whole theory of platooning. It is how the Tampa Bay Rays pulled out an OPS of over .750 in their OF primarily through platooning journey-man, 4th OF types with great splits playing everywhere but Myers spot. Matt Joyce, Kelly Johnson, and Luke Scott. While Plouffe is not Kaline, the 20-30%of the time you have a lefty pitcher in there, you get a guy that will hit a HR at the same clip as one.

    You have great production against lefties, an average 3B in total, a potential backup if Sano fails, a fill in when Mauer gets hurt, and depth in the OF in Plouffe. All at a .720 OPS. That is not why this team has lost 90+ games each year. It is the middle infield, OF, and pitching staff. Sounds like a decent $2-3M investment to me.

  11. #30
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,378
    Like
    414
    Liked 811 Times in 511 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by gmarais66 View Post
    Reality check... Plouffe's rankings among Major League third basemen: OPS (14th), batting average (15th), RBI (11th)... He's middle of the pack in nearly every category... Average... It's not tough to find a bat comparable to his... In fact, Plouffe and Eduardo Escobar are nearly identical in every offensive category, with the exception of Escobar having a higher batting average and Plouffe having more RBI... You only need to look down the bench to find someone comparable...

    He's a major league average 3B. These don't grow on trees. You won't be able to just look down the bench and find a replacement. I think you're confusing an average player with a replacement level player. As it is, Plouffe is preforming better than half of baseball's 3B right now. As such, he's fine as a placeholder until Sano is ready. When that happens, he's traded. If we are really lucky, he continues with his improvements this year and breaks out next year, increasing his value.

  12. #31
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,729
    Like
    870
    Liked 847 Times in 543 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    [QUOTE=tobi0040;256757]
    Quote Originally Posted by gmarais66 View Post
    In my humble opinion, I don't think Plouffe and Kaline should be mentioned in the same paragraph. Plouffe is about as average as average can be. He's a filler, a place holder.QUOTE]

    Plouffe is not Al Kaline. But that is the whole theory of platooning. It is how the Tampa Bay Rays pulled out an OPS of over .750 in their OF primarily through platooning journey-man, 4th OF types with great splits playing everywhere but Myers spot. Matt Joyce, Kelly Johnson, and Luke Scott. While Plouffe is not Kaline, the 20-30%of the time you have a lefty pitcher in there, you get a guy that will hit a HR at the same clip as one.

    You have great production against lefties, an average 3B in total, a potential backup if Sano fails, a fill in when Mauer gets hurt, and depth in the OF in Plouffe. All at a .720 OPS. That is not why this team has lost 90+ games each year. It is the middle infield, OF, and pitching staff. Sounds like a decent $2-3M investment to me.
    Great post. I just hope that Jack Goin finally convinces the braintrust that these realities are an economically sound way to derive more production, and thus more wins. For example, I'm not sure that Arcia will ever hit LHP at an acceptable level- you have a cheap internal solution to that problem for the next 3 years. It's easy to see why Plouffe would be a perfect fit on the Rays at $3M.

  13. This user likes jokin's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    tobi0040 (07-17-2014)

  14. #32
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,729
    Like
    870
    Liked 847 Times in 543 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    He's a major league average 3B. These don't grow on trees. You won't be able to just look down the bench and find a replacement. I think you're confusing an average player with a replacement level player. As it is, Plouffe is preforming better than half of baseball's 3B right now. As such, he's fine as a placeholder until Sano is ready. When that happens, he's traded. If we are really lucky, he continues with his improvements this year and breaks out next year, increasing his value.
    Yep, I'm banking on the thought that Ryan recognizes that Plouffe could have his career year next year and give him the chance to pull the trigger on a nice deal if Sano proves he's ready. And if he doesn't, his arb value stays low for another year and you can repeat the process, only with Plouffe taking on a utility role.

  15. #33
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,129
    Like
    101
    Liked 271 Times in 195 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5
    [QUOTE=jokin;256766]
    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post

    Great post. I just hope that Jack Goin finally convinces the braintrust that these realities are an economically sound way to derive more production, and thus more wins. For example, I'm not sure that Arcia will ever hit LHP at an acceptable level- you have a cheap internal solution to that problem for the next 3 years. It's easy to see why Plouffe would be a perfect fit on the Rays at $3M.
    Precisely, Arcia's OPS against righties is .779, against lefties he is at .454.

    Arcia is too young to give up on and he needs at bats against lefties and hopefully he can play every day. But in 1-2 years if we are good and he doesn't, you could platoon those two and combine the .779 OPS and .820 OPS.

    Only 18 players in all of MLB, spanning all 3 OF positions have higher than a .800 OPS this year. So for under $3M you can get top tier production.

  16. #34
    With Sano on the horizon the twins should trade Plouffe. He's not going to become any better (only defensively) and he is already in his prime years as a player. Next year you can have Nunez, Escobar, and Romero battle for the starting job in ST till Sano is ready. I have a few teams who could use Plouffe as a 3B:

    1. New York Yankees
    as much as i hate the Yankees i feel like they could be in the mix for a wild card spot and also a 3B. After A-rods suspension they have had a huge gap at 3rd and have tried to fill it with veterens like Kelly Johnson and Brendan Ryan but with no success, so they tried guys in there minor league system like Yangervis Solarte and Zelous Wheeler. Solarte had some success in the begging of the season only later to faal apart and be sent down to AAA and Wheeler has only had limited time at 3rd so far (10 games). If they think they can contend (which its the Yankees, they always have think they have a shot) they could use Plouffe at 3B.

    2. Kansas City Royals
    The Royals started the 2014 season with a platoon at 3B thinking it would help the team. The platoon consists of Mike Moustakas (Left) and Danny Valencia (Right) and its been pretty lopsided as Valencia has done well in his role (2HR 10RBI .293AVG .740OPS in 31 Games) while Moustakas hasn't (10HR 36RBI .192AVG .672OPS in 75 Games). Valencia not likely to become full time starter at 3B because of his ability to hit only left handed pitching with success. They could use Plouffe at 3rd for their run at the postseason.

    3. LA Angels
    A trade in the offseason to get David Freese from the Cardinals for Peter Bourjos seemed good so Freese could play at 3rd for the Angels. lets just say both have been a disappointment but we are focusing on Freese. Freese has been ok at best with 4 homers with 31 RBIs and a .253 Average in 71 games this season. It seems like they could still use a third basemen while Plouffe isn't a huge upgrade he's an upgrade non the less.

  17. #35
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    121
    Like
    26
    Liked 49 Times in 28 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    He's a major league average 3B. These don't grow on trees. You won't be able to just look down the bench and find a replacement. I think you're confusing an average player with a replacement level player. As it is, Plouffe is preforming better than half of baseball's 3B right now. As such, he's fine as a placeholder until Sano is ready. When that happens, he's traded. If we are really lucky, he continues with his improvements this year and breaks out next year, increasing his value.
    Exactly. I know that people on TD are dedicated to following the Twins, but if you've been watching them the last few years, then you begin to appreciate how hard it is to find average starting ML-caliber players. That's distinctly different from replacement-level. That's even different from just generally average players. We're talking average ML-starters.

    All it takes is a look at the wRC+ (or OPS+) of players fielded for significant PAs recently. If you're looking at >100 PAs, Plouffe is 8th on the team. Ahead of him are question marks about sustainability (Santana/Fuld/Nunez), trade-candidates (Zukes/Hammer), and real parts of a future Twins team (Dozier/Pinto). Looking ahead to 2015, Plouffe could be the #3-#5 bat on the Twins depending on projection of Mauer and Arcia. I see him as a solid defensive and offensive cornerstone, and that has value in future Twins teams or in trades.

  18. This user likes TheDean's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    jokin (07-17-2014)

  19. #36
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
    Posts
    3,984
    Like
    101
    Liked 384 Times in 199 Posts
    I don't think Plouffe has much trade value and if you are only getting a C level prospect (low upside, back of rotation type guy or what not) then its worth holding onto him for the time being and figure it out next season once/if/hopefully Sano is ready.

    At that point he will either be hitting enough to earn another full time role, or will be a rather cheap and solid Platoon/PH/Bench player.
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald


  20. #37
    Which player ahead of him is available on the free agent market and within the Twins price range that is very easy to replace? Prior to Plouffe, the fact is we have not had an average or above average 3B since Koskie.
    For years a lot of Twins fans have wished for Koskie back.

    Trevor is on pace for 68 runs, 40 doubles, 14 homers and 74 RBI.

    Koskie scored more but some of that has to do with the rest of the lineup.
    Koskie never hit 40 doubles, only got 30+ in 3 seasons.
    Koskie hit over 14 homers 3 times but one of them was 15.
    Koskie only had 1 season of over 74 RBI.
    Koskie was smoother with the glove but Trevor is much improved this year.

    Trevor is hitting his stride at 3rd. He should stay there and with the Twins until Sano forces the issue. If Sano finds out he can't throw next year we might spend another 6-8 years looking for someone as good as Trevor to play 3rd.

  21. These 2 users like Thor's post and want to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    tobi0040 (07-17-2014), WLFINN (07-19-2014)

  22. #38
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    8,109
    Twitter
    @rocketpig76
    Like
    48
    Liked 1,586 Times in 824 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Corey Koskie posted a combined WAR of almost 16 in his last three seasons with the Twins.

    Trevor Plouffe is on track to post a WAR of ~2 this season, which would be a career high.

  23. #39
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,729
    Like
    870
    Liked 847 Times in 543 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by JustcallupSANO View Post
    1. New York Yankees
    as much as i hate the Yankees i feel like they could be in the mix for a wild card spot and also a 3B. After A-rods suspension they have had a huge gap at 3rd and have tried to fill it with veterens like Kelly Johnson and Brendan Ryan but with no success, so they tried guys in there minor league system like Yangervis Solarte and Zelous Wheeler. Solarte had some success in the begging of the season only later to faal apart and be sent down to AAA and Wheeler has only had limited time at 3rd so far (10 games). If they think they can contend (which its the Yankees, they always have think they have a shot) they could use Plouffe at 3B.

    .
    Solarte is back up with the Yankees and is listed as #1 on their depth chart at 3B. http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/depth/_/...w-york-yankees

    Having said that, all it would take for the Yankees to get on a phone is to take a look at Plouffe's spray chart:



    At only 318 down the LF line and 314 down the RF line, Plouffe would have a field day in NY, plus his gap doubles in TF become gap triples in the spacious Yankee Stadium power alleys.

  24. #40
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
    Posts
    3,992
    Like
    4
    Liked 124 Times in 90 Posts
    Blog Entries
    67
    Well if the option is to platoon him with Arcia after Sano arrives, then fine. We do know that this would require a change of manager, however.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.