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Thread: Drew Butera

  1. #21
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...rticleid=15093

    if you follow the link for all catchers, you'll see that Butera has a negative influence on framing pitches. Even if you don't believe the numbers are precise, I'd say that the conclusions of the study indicate that Butera is likely not quite the help with the pitchers as you all think. He's about neutral. Now, compared to Doumit, he's a framing savant. Compared to Mauer, he's statisically about the same.

    There is a huge difference between correlation, and causation. I find it amazing that people believe that Butera starting makes it more likely the Twins win games. His offense was historically bad last year. No amount of catcher defense can make up for the number of runs he does not produce as a hitter.
    That's an interesting spreadsheet. I am not going to talk about Ramos, but if you look at it both Jose Morales and Rene Rivera are rated higher than Butera. And Morales could hit.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Really, all of this would be much easier to deal with if Morneau could come back and play 3-5 games a week at 1b. Let Doumit be our primary DH, where he's going to be most successful.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer mikeee's Avatar
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    0-3.
    I think he was 0-3 last time I watched too.

  4. #24
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Have to say this: I HATE Joe Mauer bashing and I hate Drew Butera as a baseball player.

    But Joe Mauer and Drew Butera (playing) would be the least of our worries if this team had players who could play baseball at their own positions instead of:

    Trevor Plouffe, Chris Parmelee (I feel bad that he is being "Revered" this year), Danny Valencia, Nick Blackburn, Carl Pavano, Francisco Liriano, Jason Marquis. Upgrade even just a bit on all seven of these players and Joe Mauer's lack of slugging and Drew Butera's starting major league games would be correctly put on the back-burner.

  5. #25
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanewahl View Post
    Have to say this: I HATE Joe Mauer bashing and I hate Drew Butera as a baseball player.

    But Joe Mauer and Drew Butera (playing) would be the least of our worries if this team had players who could play baseball at their own positions instead of:

    Trevor Plouffe, Chris Parmelee (I feel bad that he is being "Revered" this year), Danny Valencia, Nick Blackburn, Carl Pavano, Francisco Liriano, Jason Marquis. Upgrade even just a bit on all seven of these players and Joe Mauer's lack of slugging and Drew Butera's starting major league games would be correctly put on the back-burner.
    I've never understood this argument. You see it all the time. "Nick Punto would be just fine if everyone else would do their job." "He's just fine as a number 9 hitter."

    Find better players? Yes. But dismiss one bad baseball player from the list of needed upgrades, because his suckiness would be less noticeable if the other players were better?

    No.

    Drew Butera hurts the Twins. There are only 9 hitters in a lineup. One terrible one hurts, no matter what the others do. Blaming them for not making up for him misses the point.

  6. #26
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    "Nick Punto would be just fine if everyone else would do their job."
    That's always been one of my absolute favorites.


    If anything a black hole like Butera should be among the first places to look for upgrades (not the last) as they've set the bar so incredibly low there's a ton of room for potential improvement.

  7. #27
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Drew Butera is special... Not many players can turn an American league team into a National league team. Drew does this by negating the DH position by his presence in the lineup. We should all marvel at this powerful ability.

    I just want to point out that he made his 5th start of the season tonight. Luke Hughes had 10 at bats. Luke Hughes wasn't Robinson Cano but I want to point out that Butera made his 5th start tonight and compare that with Lukes 10 at bats and being shown the door.

    Did I mention 11 games up and 5 starts. I often have no point but often feel like typing anyway.

  8. #28
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Drew Butera is special... Not many players can turn an American league team into a National league team. Drew does this by negating the DH position by his presence in the lineup. We should all marvel at this powerful ability.

    I just want to point out that he made his 5th start of the season tonight. Luke Hughes had 10 at bats. Luke Hughes wasn't Robinson Cano but I want to point out that Butera made his 5th start tonight and compare that with Lukes 10 at bats and being shown the door.

    Did I mention 11 games up and 5 starts. I often have no point but often feel like typing anyway.
    One more start at C than Mauer over that time frame.

  9. #29
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    You missed the point entirely. Of course, and this was clear as I actually stated "I hate Drew Butera as a baseball player," Drew shouldn't be anything but a organizational AAA catcher to help pitchers coming up the system, but how much complaining was being done in 2010 about him? Having a third catcher like that is a luxury on loaded teams.

  10. #30
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanewahl View Post
    You missed the point entirely. Of course, and this was clear as I actually stated "I hate Drew Butera as a baseball player," Drew shouldn't be anything but a organizational AAA catcher to help pitchers coming up the system, but how much complaining was being done in 2010 about him? Having a third catcher like that is a luxury on loaded teams.
    I missed the point? You mentioned 8 other players and their assorted failures in your Drew Butera post.

    BTW, I (and many others) complained bitterly about Drew Butera all through 2010. Rightfully so, too.

  11. #31
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    I missed the point? You mentioned 8 other players and their assorted failures in your Drew Butera post.

    BTW, I (and many others) complained bitterly about Drew Butera all through 2010. Rightfully so, too.
    The idea is that Drew Butera is not supposed to be on a team unless it is very good. You can complain about him now, but there are far bigger problems just with the offense.

    On the other hand, I have been adamant about having this joke player on the roster at all and how he CLEARLY is loved by Gardenhire, so he WILL start way too much.

  12. #32
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    One more start at C than Mauer over that time frame.
    Gardy gets the same newsletters that all the other managers get... Right? Those newsletters professionally prepared that contain hitting charts, tendencies, hot and cold zones. Numerous percentage breakouts and breakdowns. Comparisons, batter vs pitcher, left right splits, day night splits, home away etc... Historical data, scouting reports and projections. Is it possible the info is password protected and Gardy forgot the password.

    If Gardy is getting this info like he should be getting. Can you imagine what data is in these reports leading to 5 starts in less than two weeks for a third catcher. I believe he has started at catcher more then the other two. By definition this makes Butera the #1.

  13. #33
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Players that OPS .500 don't belong in the major leagues, regardless of the quality of team.

  14. #34
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Here I find myself in a position of defending (not really at all) a guy who I have ridiculed and scorned the Twins for having on the roster. I named 8 guys who matter WAY more than Drew Butera. There are 22 or 23 guys who matter more, generally, and even if this joke is starting, there are likely a dozen or so who matter more.

    Obviously Joe Mauer should be trusted to call games for Diamond and Pavano. And Doumit too.

    But Butera is not doing the damage that Trevor Plouffe, Chris Parmelee, Danny Valencia, and those four SP have done already. He's playing a defensive position and they are starting at offensive positions or are starting pitchers for Christ's sake.

  15. #35
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanewahl View Post
    Here I find myself in a position of defending (not really at all) a guy who I have ridiculed and scorned the Twins for having on the roster. I named 8 guys who matter WAY more than Drew Butera. There are 22 or 23 guys who matter more, generally, and even if this joke is starting, there are likely a dozen or so who matter more.

    Obviously Joe Mauer should be trusted to call games for Diamond and Pavano. And Doumit too.

    But Butera is not doing the damage that Trevor Plouffe, Chris Parmelee, Danny Valencia, and those four SP have done already. He's playing a defensive position and they are starting at offensive positions or are starting pitchers for Christ's sake.
    Good take.

  16. #36
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    Regardless of whether or not it is the biggest issue with the team, starting Butera 5 times in less than 5-6 weeks is an issue for this team. He's just not good at his job. Starting him 5 times in two weeks? That's not a good sign for the quality of your team.
    Lighten up Francis....

  17. #37
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Drew Butera hurts the Twins. There are only 9 hitters in a lineup. One terrible one hurts, no matter what the others do. Blaming them for not making up for him misses the point.
    So does Trevor Plouffe.

  18. #38
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Drew didn't block Cappsie's splitter cleanly, which cost the Twins the game. I just don't see him as much better than average defensively. With that bat, he has to be supercatcher and he's not.

  19. #39
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Gardy gets the same newsletters that all the other managers get... Right? Those newsletters professionally prepared that contain hitting charts, tendencies, hot and cold zones. Numerous percentage breakouts and breakdowns. Comparisons, batter vs pitcher, left right splits, day night splits, home away etc... Historical data, scouting reports and projections. Is it possible the info is password protected and Gardy forgot the password.

    If Gardy is getting this info like he should be getting. Can you imagine what data is in these reports leading to 5 starts in less than two weeks for a third catcher. I believe he has started at catcher more then the other two. By definition this makes Butera the #1.
    Butera changed the password.

  20. #40
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Highabove's Avatar
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    Butera with three hits today.

    Tom Burnansky miracle worker.

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