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Thread: Joe Mauer 3B?

  1. #41
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    Mauer's a little bigger, but not much, than Corey Koskie was. Koskie built himself into a really good 3B after a very mediocre beginning, I'd wager Joe Mauer could do it too. But as has been mentioned, until Joe Mauer shows any inclination to allow the move, it's not happening. I think somebody needs to get LEN or JC or the like to start asking about the "rumors" of a possible move to get him thinking about it.

  2. #42
    Senior Member All-Star YourHouseIsMyHouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StormJH1 View Post
    Saying "Mauer can do it!" is basically like saying "Anyone can do it!". I don't understand the upside. Suppose Mauer moved to 3rd base, and did it as well as Miguel Cabrera this year (not even a fair comparison, since 3B WAS Cabrera's original position). What does this solve?

    (1) Mauer isn't a "plus" bat at 3rd base. Not trying to be a troll here, but much like at 1st base, there are plenty of legit power bats at 3rd. Mauer is comparable to Chris Johnson, in his present state.
    Well he's a hybrid Placido Polanco at 3B (less glove, more OBP) and a Doug Mientciewitz at 1B. Which has more value?

  3. #43
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StormJH1 View Post
    Saying "Mauer can do it!" is basically like saying "Anyone can do it!". I don't understand the upside. Suppose Mauer moved to 3rd base, and did it as well as Miguel Cabrera this year (not even a fair comparison, since 3B WAS Cabrera's original position). What does this solve?

    (1) Mauer isn't a "plus" bat at 3rd base. Not trying to be a troll here, but much like at 1st base, there are plenty of legit power bats at 3rd. Mauer is comparable to Chris Johnson, in his present state.
    (2) There's no star player at catcher that necessitated the move. This argument might have made sense if we had Buster Posey or even Ramos in the organization, but not now.
    (3) Mauer is 29 years old. 3rd base isn't the "safest" position to play. There's a lot of diving and hard physical charging for bunts, etc. And that's assuming you don't take liners off the face. You'd be forcing a move to a new position that certainly does not prolong his career in any meaningful way, and with his body already "turning the corner", it's tough to imagine you'd want him there in a few years anyway.
    Couple of things. It's not saying anyone can do it but there is a reason catchers transition to 3b well. The positions are more similar then you'd thnk. They have to posess similar talents. It's a matter of reps.

    Personally I don't subscribe to the theory that a 3B has to be a power guy. A SS has to be a speed guy and LF has to be a water buffalo. You fit any type of player at any position. You can have a Fast 1B and a Power hitting 2B. Whatever the context of your team. this Twins team doesn't have a context. The Twins can be anything right now.

    True we don't have an up and comer at Catcher. We don't have him around the corner at 3B either.

    No position is safe to play... IF you play it right. Catcher is perhaps the most dangerous.

    Its ok to hang on to hope for this season but like a Presidential speech writer. You need to write a victory speech and a concession speech. Mauer at third should be part of the concession speech. Once that happens... You can live with the learning curve it's going to take.

  4. #44
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Its also just flat out wrong to say moving Mauer to third is unlikely to prolong his career. We're talking about catching here. For a guy with chronic leg, back and knee issues.

  5. #45
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adjacent View Post
    In that case, you would be replacing Mauer with a .360 hitter.
    Man, at this point I am almost in favor of running Drew out there game after game until his batting average drops below .260 (a few games probably), and/or let him pitch until his ERA is above 6 (should take a few batters in the first inning). Either we'll be done with this Drew Butera: Superstar meme, or else we'll have another catcher batting above .260 for a full season and we can indeed re-deploy Mauer to first or third or even the Special Assistant position Bill Smith has.

  6. #46
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    You can have a Fast 1B and a Power hitting 2B.
    You find a defensively-capable 2B hitting for power like a 1B and you'll be paying Mauer money for rare talent. This is why the stereotypes stick.
    Last edited by ashburyjohn; 05-22-2012 at 03:05 PM.

  7. #47
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StormJH1 View Post
    Saying "Mauer can do it!" is basically like saying "Anyone can do it!". .
    It is.....really? I've been saying it over and over but it still doesn't come out that way, weird.

    Personally I don't think I can do it, there goes the anyone theory.

    Catcher is way harder on your body than 3rd base, no question, that's what the jyst of this is, Mauer's long term health.

  8. #48
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Mauer at 3B is a definite improvement in terms of value on that $23 million. If you all are talking about a C/3B/DH combo, that is all well and good with a healthy Justin Morneau playing 1B almost every day.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Its also just flat out wrong to say moving Mauer to third is unlikely to prolong his career. We're talking about catching here. For a guy with chronic leg, back and knee issues.
    Prolong his career? Let's just let him finish this 8 yr deal and then he can play 3-5 more yrs for veterans minimum to make up for screwing the organization with that obscene contract that he would have never got form anyone else. I would highly doubt NYY would have matched th 8yrs, maybe per season but not 8 yrs for a catcher.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by StormJH1 View Post
    Saying "Mauer can do it!" is basically like saying "Anyone can do it!". I don't understand the upside. Suppose Mauer moved to 3rd base, and did it as well as Miguel Cabrera this year (not even a fair comparison, since 3B WAS Cabrera's original position). What does this solve?

    (1) Mauer isn't a "plus" bat at 3rd base. Not trying to be a troll here, but much like at 1st base, there are plenty of legit power bats at 3rd. Mauer is comparable to Chris Johnson, in his present state.
    .
    Focusing on power (and by that I assume you mean HR) is not a good way to evaluate the value of a hitter. The stat that most corresponds to wins in MLB is run differential. The stat that most corresponds to scoring runs is not HR, it's OBP.

    In WOBA He's currently ranked 5th at catcher and 7th at first base. At third base, he'd be ranked 5. The league average for 1B is .324, for C it's .311, and for 3B......it's .311. Mauer actually adds the same +value at either position 3B or C. If you don't like WOBA and just want to look at power (slugging-not a full picture of a hitter but that was the stat you picked) well he'd be 12th in both, again. Two points. One, that Mauer is a plus hitter at either way when looking at the big picture, and two, catchers and 3B are hitting almost evenly overall.

  11. #51
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darin617 View Post
    Prolong his career? Let's just let him finish this 8 yr deal and then he can play 3-5 more yrs for veterans minimum to make up for screwing the organization with that obscene contract that he would have never got form anyone else. I would highly doubt NYY would have matched th 8yrs, maybe per season but not 8 yrs for a catcher.
    How did HE screw the organization? You are not making sense. Furthermore, the organization knew damn well that the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, etc. would throw MORE money at Joe Mauer. You are insane not to realize this.

  12. #52
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    Focusing on power (and by that I assume you mean HR) is not a good way to evaluate the value of a hitter. The stat that most corresponds to wins in MLB is run differential. The stat that most corresponds to scoring runs is not HR, it's OBP.

    In WOBA He's currently ranked 5th at catcher and 7th at first base. At third base, he'd be ranked 5. The league average for 1B is .324, for C it's .311, and for 3B......it's .311. Mauer actually adds the same +value at either position 3B or C. If you don't like WOBA and just want to look at power (slugging-not a full picture of a hitter but that was the stat you picked) well he'd be 12th in both, again. Two points. One, that Mauer is a plus hitter at either way when looking at the big picture, and two, catchers and 3B are hitting almost evenly overall.
    Bumping this up.

  13. #53
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darin617 View Post
    prolong his career? Let's just let him finish this 8 yr deal and then he can play 3-5 more yrs for veterans minimum to make up for screwing the organization with that obscene contract that he would have never got form anyone else. I would highly doubt nyy would have matched th 8yrs, maybe per season but not 8 yrs for a catcher.
    D-e-l-u-d-e-d

  14. #54
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    You find a defensively-capable 2B hitting for power like a 1B and you'll be paying Mauer money for rare talent. This is why the stereotypes stick.
    You are of course referring to a superstar like Cano, Ryne Sandberg, Chase Utley. It is also possible to have a non superstar power guy play the position. Uggla, Kelly Johnson, Ty Wigginton, Jose Lopez.

    The stereotype sticks because teams want defense up the middle and defense is aided greatly by speed. When you crowd your speed in the middle... the big slow bombers go on the edges. It all depends on the context of your team. Figgins can play third with a Lopez. Revere can play left without having Stanton like power and the team can still be successful. Teams can flourish or fail just like stereotypical lineup.

    We have Power potential from Willingham, Morneau, Doumit and... Well Mauer would be #4 on that list... So with the Twins... You can comfortably put him on a corner and call him Mike Schmidt... That is our context. If Mauer fits the sterotype is pointless and How Mauer compares to Longoria and Rolen does nothing to either justify his contract or help the team where help is needed.

    I understand that part of his contract is tied to the catcher position. However, his contract also demands that he stay healthy and stay in the lineup. Catchers simply need more rest. His contract also demands that he play where needed.

    If youbare looking for the stereotypical 3B. We don't have him. Not I'm AAA either.

    The construction of this team almost demands it. 3 of our 4 powers guys collide positional with each other. Mauer plays C and 1B which is also played by Doumit and Morneau and they are all top preferences for the DH position.

    If Mauer is a Minnesota guy. He'd see the need and say "yes skip...I'll play third if the team needs it". You throw him out there for the end of the year. If it works he can play some third next year and catch on occasion. Now we just need Gardy to ask.
    Last edited by Riverbrian; 05-22-2012 at 11:19 PM.

  15. #55
    Head Moderator MVP glunn's Avatar
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    What is the problem with Mauer playing RF? Does it really make sense to risk his knees on charging a bunt?

  16. #56
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    WHAT?

    What is it about charging a bunt that's any more hazardous than a dozen other baseball activities Mauer engages in on a daily basis?

  17. #57
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    To be fair, the team thought that Danny Valencia was going to solve the damn problem. I doubt Joe has even been asked about playing third.

  18. #58
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    Maybe next year in spring training he should try it.

  19. #59
    Senior Member All-Star YourHouseIsMyHouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
    What is the problem with Mauer playing RF? Does it really make sense to risk his knees on charging a bunt?
    There are really high expectations for outfielders offensively. The average OPS for a corner outfielder is .819 (http://scoresheetwiz.tripod.com/id136.html). This season and in 2011 Mauer has been below that point. Granted, these have both been below average seasons by his standards, but even if he were above that mark the value isn't much more than $10 million a year in my view. Keep in mind that good outfielders aren't tough to find and that there is plenty of depth within the organization. I wouldn't mind if Joe gets around 10 starts at RF a season or so, but any further commitment to that position just isn't very appealing.

  20. #60
    We have a hole at 3B so to fill it we're going to move our Gold Glove catcher there, and in his place we're going to put a guy that hits .200 with no XB power whatsoever. Tell me what this solves again?

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