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Thread: Does Nishi make this team?

  1. #41
    If Nishi makes the team the Twins are in trouble.

  2. #42
    Member Rookie denarded's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Ed View Post
    Over 20 million dollars spend on utility infielders with Punto's bad 2 year deal and now the awful Nishioka contract, in recent years.

    For a team working on a 'budget', bad use of resources.
    This is a great point, and i want nishi to work out, but i don't think there's space for his skills and his salary is costing us a real #3 starter

  3. #43
    Senior Member Double-A iTwins's Avatar
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    I'm hoping that Nishi's first year was simply the result of trying to adjust and being in way over his head. That being said, I don't think he's shown any inkling of being major league ready. Ideally, the Twins will let him develop in AAA for at least the first half of the year, just to see if he has what it takes to be a major league player. Right now, he just looks like a bad investment.

  4. #44
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by denarded View Post
    This is a great point, and i want nishi to work out, but i don't think there's space for his skills and his salary is costing us a real #3 starter
    They have to pay Nishioka whether he's on the big-league roster or not. No one else is taking that salary.

    My frustration with this situation is similar to my frustration with paying Capps almost $5M. It's one thing to overpay a guy; it's another to cry poor and refuse to spend an extra couple million on areas of need because you're overpaying that guy. Is it more bothersome that the Twins are paying $3 million this year to a guy who might not even make the team because of a misjudgment, or that they won't call it a sunk cost and spend that money on someone who can actually help them?

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Horrorpants View Post
    There's just too much toxicity in regards to Nishioka right now. Even if they did keep him, I can't picture him thriving in an environment where he's so clearly a lame duck player.

    I don't really have any fancy reasons for feeling this way, but I can't even imagine Nishi on the Target Field bench in 2012.
    Yeah, I agree with Mr. Horrorpants. How can Nishi "get acclimated" to the majors (defensively or offensively) by not playing consistently. He can't be used as a defensive replacement or a pinch-hitter. So there's no short-term value having him on the club, and it does virtually nothing long-term for his development/acclimation.

    Isn't he viewed as Bill Smith's guy? Would that make it more likely the Twins decide to admit the mistake and send him to Rochester?

  6. #46
    Senior Member Double-A
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    I think they will give him a strong look. Casilla can't seem to stay healthy. Nishi may play second if Casilla can't. I think he'll be in Rochester but who knows what will happen during spring training. A number of Twins scouts thought he was the real deal when they gave him the three year deal. It wasn't just one guy who thought he could make it MLB....they saw something in him...and then a series of bad breaks early really didn't help the cause, but he seems like a hard worker, so we'll see....

  7. #47
    If they're thinking objectively about it, they'll stick Nishioka in an everyday role in AAA. As previously noted by many, putting him on the bench in the bigs is detrimental, and he never really got his feet under him last season.

    Barring injuries (ha) he doesn't serve a useful purpose on the big league squad to start the season. He's got depth potential, though, and if he can get into a groove then he could be useful in the future. It's not as if Alexi Casilla has blown away all future competition. his .310/.337 career OBP/SLG is likely to get him cut before arbitration pays him better next year, and the Twins need to get other options in place. It's not impossible to imagine a world in which Nishi replaces Casilla at 2B in 2013.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Triple-A Teflon's Avatar
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    Justifying the $3 million salary issue somewhat (if Nishioka goes down to AAA) would be the savings from not having to repair any more Pavano dugout damage wrought by Nishi's butchery in the field.

  9. #49
    No. He doesn't.

  10. #50
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    You know when that isn't great? When you have CF, LF, 2B, AND SS all occupied by guys with basically no potential to drive in runs.
    CF = Leadoff Hitter, LF = #9 hitter, 2B = #2 hitter, SS = #8 hitter. With the exception of probably Span, they're all singles hitters who hopefully will get on base so that the #3, #4, and #5 hitters can knock them in.

  11. #51
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    If he can play 2B appropriately, then he has a good chance. And if Hughes has to start on the DL, he has a very good chance. I don't see them using a roster spot for someone who is only a backup shortstop (and a sub-par one at that). I would hope that he plays basically every day at SS and 2B with Dozier (and Florimon) at Rochester until mid-May or the beginning of June. Making the most out of the investment is what is needed now, and using him to start once a week and pinch run every other game for the Twins is not the way to make the most out of that investment.

  12. #52
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Also, Casilla is not going to be around in 2013, so the last year of the Nishioka deal should be the focus and preparing him to be a good player in 2013 is what is needed (if Casilla sucks this year or gets injured again, he isn't worth the money next year--and if he is very good this year, it is sell-as-high-as-conceivably-possible time with that guy).

  13. #53
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    I cannot freaking believe we've gone to page 6 on the subject of Tsuyoshi Nishioka and the 25th roster spot. I love it. This site is going to destroy all my relationships with real people, but I love it.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by shanewahl View Post
    Also, Casilla is not going to be around in 2013, so the last year of the Nishioka deal should be the focus and preparing him to be a good player in 2013 is what is needed (if Casilla sucks this year or gets injured again, he isn't worth the money next year--and if he is very good this year, it is sell-as-high-as-conceivably-possible time with that guy).
    Why won't Casilla be around next year? If he sucks this year, then sure, you nontender him, but he's got another year of arbitration left, so if he has a breakout year (or even if he's just competent), they can keep him at a reasonable price.
    "There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by thrylos98 View Post
    The other thing that has to be mentioned regarding Nishioka is that he really is not a short stop (he is ok at 2B) and that his defensive shortcomings at SS were also obvious in Japan. He lacks the arm strength to play short and he led the Pacific League in Japan in 2009 in errors for SS. So that was a known quantity, thus playing him at 2B last season. (In Japan he was an above average second baseman.) What was the surprise was his hitting (or lack of). So the Twins knew they were getting a below average SS when they got him.
    I don't know if that was that much of a surprise. Sure, he won a batting title in Japan, but he needed a .399 BABIP to do it. That type of luck just doesn't happen often.

  16. #56
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    I talked to Marty Brown who managed in Japan and is now a Triple A manager for Toronto. He told me Nishioka is a very good player. He also said he is not a major league ss, but will be a very good hitter and 2nd baseman. He said the adjustment is tough for the japanese players, but he thinks last year was just a bad luck year and he will be fine.

  17. #57
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeefMaster View Post
    Why won't Casilla be around next year? If he sucks this year, then sure, you nontender him, but he's got another year of arbitration left, so if he has a breakout year (or even if he's just competent), they can keep him at a reasonable price.
    I wouldn't trust him to have another good season in 2013 and I think that a jump to $3 million or so versus 450K or whatever for Dozier would mean he is gone.

  18. #58
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Highabove's Avatar
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    Nishi did not even play up to the level of an American Association infielder. George Tsamis would have cut him from the Saints. I still believe that the Twins are doing the right thing by giving him another chance.

  19. #59
    I have to agree w/ TwinkieFan11 and not abandon the Nishi ship just yet....new country, media hype, broken leg....I don't think he got settled.....I fully agree he looked overmatched at the plate but hopefully he has the gumption to make adjustments in 2012....

  20. #60
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    I would not abandon it at all either, but Rochester has better waters (ok, the analogy will stop). I would rather see him play every day for a month or so and hopefully become an actual backup middle infielder who can push Casilla and Valencia (since Carroll can play all three positions).

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