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Thread: Article: White Sox vs. Twins, 06/25/2012, 7:10pm

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
    So long as Liriano can continue to put up zeros, I don't mind him having a personal catcher. Butera's weakness as a batter seems minor compared with shutting out the White Sox (and giving Doumit some extra rest).
    How about finding a personal catcher who doesnt suck?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
    So long as Liriano can continue to put up zeros, I don't mind him having a personal catcher. Butera's weakness as a batter seems minor compared with shutting out the White Sox (and giving Doumit some extra rest).
    The thing is that there shouldn't be any connection between Butera and success and coddling the media, fans, and players with fantasies only strengthens a faulty idea. Liriano has thrown to many catchers in his career, including primarily Mauer during Francisco's best season, 2010. Butera wasn't around when Liriano dominated in 2006. On the other hand, Drew was around all season and caught Liriano many times during his epic-terrible 2011.

    So why is Drew getting credit now? Because Liriano is pitching well? Why didn't Drew get the blame when Francisco was awful? The Twins should be the ones most aware that Liriano is throwing better because of his mechanics and slider and that Drew has nothing to do with it. This kind of ridiculous "folksy baseball" that the franchise (and particularly Gardy) likes to spin absolutely infuriates me. It's completely counter to logic and uses as much critical thinking as a Kardashian.

  3. #63
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    Just make Butera a fulltime pitcher and have him replace (insert crappy pitcher name here) in the rotation/bullpen. Tada problem solved!

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketpig View Post
    The thing is that there shouldn't be any connection between Butera and success and coddling the media, fans, and players with fantasies only strengthens a faulty idea. Liriano has thrown to many catchers in his career, including primarily Mauer during Francisco's best season, 2010. Butera wasn't around when Liriano dominated in 2006. On the other hand, Drew was around all season and caught Liriano many times during his epic-terrible 2011.

    So why is Drew getting credit now? Because Liriano is pitching well? Why didn't Drew get the blame when Francisco was awful? The Twins should be the ones most aware that Liriano is throwing better because of his mechanics and slider and that Drew has nothing to do with it. This kind of ridiculous "folksy baseball" that this franchise (and particularly Gardy) likes to spin absolutely infuriates me. It's completely counter to logic and uses as much critical thinking as a Kardashian.
    Butera presents a nice low target, and seems to be able to get the most out of Liriano. Why not let Doumit get some well-deserved rest, so long as Liriano and Butera are producing great results?

  5. #65
    I'm hoping it's more Liriano being superstitious, than Gardy actually believing Drew Butera is why Liriano is pitching well.

  6. #66
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    I dont care how good Peavy's move is, Revere cannot stay at first.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
    Butera presents a nice low target, and seems to be able to get the most out of Liriano. Why not let Doumit get some well-deserved rest, so long as Liriano and Butera are producing great results?
    So in a vacuum you advocate carrying three catchers?

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    If Liriano is more comfortable throwing to Butera than the others then whats the big deal. I rather take a dominate Liriano and butera every fifth day than one more day of Doumit.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
    Butera presents a nice low target, and seems to be able to get the most out of Liriano. Why not let Doumit get some well-deserved rest, so long as Liriano and Butera are producing great results?
    Ryan Doumit has now played three times in the past six days. He doesn't need rest unless he's injured.

    My point is that in 2010, Mauer caught Liriano almost exclusively because Butera was "Pavano's personal catcher" and Liriano had the best season of his career. On the other hand, Mauer was injured for much of 2011 and Butera caught Liriano more than anyone else and Liriano was flat-out awful.

    Why do we keep accepting this organization's half-baked ideas that Butera is some kind of Holy Grail of Catching? It's pure nonsense and insulting to our intelligence. There is zero evidence to support it and plenty of evidence to discount it. On the flip side of things, there are mountains of data showing how much damage Butera does to the offense on a daily basis.

    Drew Butera has no business being on the roster of a major league baseball team.

  10. #70
    Head Moderator All-Star glunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edavis0308 View Post
    So in a vacuum you advocate carrying three catchers?
    No, but when presented with lemons, I like to make sweet lemonade if I can.

  11. #71
    Head Moderator All-Star glunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketpig View Post
    Ryan Doumit has now played three times in the past six days. He doesn't need rest unless he's injured.

    My point is that in 2010, Mauer caught Liriano almost exclusively because Butera was "Pavano's personal catcher" and Liriano had the best season of his career. On the other hand, Mauer was injured for much of 2011 and Butera caught Liriano more than anyone else and Liriano was flat-out awful.

    Why do we keep accepting this organization's half-baked ideas that Butera is some kind of Holy Grail of Catching? It's pure nonsense and insulting to our intelligence. There is zero evidence to support it and plenty of evidence to discount it. On the flip side of things, there are mountains of data showing how much damage Butera does to the offense on a daily basis.

    Drew Butera has no business being on the roster of a major league baseball team.
    Baseball is a game where one-tenth of an inch can make all the difference. Even if Liriano's confidence in Butera is based purely on superstition, that seems worth it so long as they are producing together.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
    Baseball is a game where one-tenth of an inch can make all the difference. Even if Liriano's confidence in Butera is based purely on superstition, that seems worth it so long as they are producing together.
    It's the manager's job to make sure his players don't have insane notions and are in the proper mindset. If Liriano is never caught by anyone other than Son of Sal and Gardy quips his folksy wisdom about how Drew "always does the little things, gives Liriano-y a low target, herp derp", how on earth does anyone really know that Drew makes a difference? Empirical evidence certainly doesn't support the idea. It doesn't hold up under critical analysis, either. In fact, other than the ramblings of the manager and front office, there is zero reason to think this is a good idea and a laundry list of reasons why it's a bad one.

    It's Gardy's job to convince Liriano that the best catcher on the roster gives him the best chance to win, not reinforce flawed ideas and 1950s baseball "knowledge".

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
    No, but when presented with lemons, I like to make sweet lemonade if I can.
    That's the grandma logic the Twins seem to be using to. I say leave the doily like platitudes on the buffet table.

    Suggesting that your finding the silver lining doesn't justify poor roster management on the Twins part...

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketpig View Post
    It's the manager's job to make sure his players don't have insane notions and are in the proper mindset. If Liriano is never caught by anyone other than Son of Sal and Gardy quips his folksy wisdom about how Drew "always does the little things, gives Liriano-y a low target, herp derp", how on earth does anyone really know that Drew makes a difference? Empirical evidence certainly doesn't support the idea. It doesn't hold up under critical analysis, either. In fact, other than the ramblings of the manager and front office, there is zero reason to think this is a good idea and a laundry list of reasons why it's a bad one.
    I agree with you from the perspective of logic and rational analysis. But as long as the Liriano-Butera partnership is producing wins, I am happy to go with irrational superstition.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chance View Post
    Any perdictions for the game? Final score? Player production?

    4-3 Twins. Butera an extra base hit.
    Nailed It!

  16. #76
    Speaking of that, Butera just knocked out a double.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
    I agree with you from the perspective of logic and rational analysis. But as long as the Liriano-Butera partnership is producing wins, I am happy to go with irrational superstition.
    Oh, so as long as Liriano isn't a headcase and pitches closer to his potential? That's would open the door up to not.needing a league worst hitting personal catcher.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketpig View Post
    I've noticed that the site occasionally hiccups and slows down for a moment. It usually clears up right away.
    All day, and for the first time, I've had problems with the page loading. When I click to the next page of comments, for example, it will not load properly. Running the latest version of Safari and never had problems till now and only on this site. Hope it clears up.
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

  19. #79
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    I feel like Butera was just a lead character in Frailty that whole sequence.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
    I agree with you from the perspective of logic and rational analysis. But as long as the Liriano-Butera partnership is producing wins, I am happy to go with irrational superstition.
    And while I'm not going to argue with you too much about it, I'm just tired of hearing these excuses and reasons from Gardy. It's been ten years of this same crap. If things are going well, Butera is Liriano's Personal Savior. Obviously, lil Drew is the reason for Francisco's success this season because he, uh, caught his first game back in the rotation or something.

    But when he was the worst hitter in baseball and catching an awful Liriano on the way to a 99 loss season in 2011? Not a %$*&ing word.

    I'm really tired of asking myself whether Gardenhire even watches baseball. I was hoping with the return of JR (and the impending roster/franchise clean-up that followed), one of the first things to be discussed would have been "Ron, you are no longer allowed to play awful players every day just because you like them."

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