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Thread: Baseball America updated prospect ranking

  1. #61
    I know this is a lot of ifs and buts but........ If Baker, Wimmers and Gibson don't get hurt our pitching depth looks pretty damn good!! Injuries happen......nothing we can do but rebuild and hope they get healthy. Twins have had a two year run of horrible luck piled on top of three years with Bill Smith as GM. Terry Ryan has us moving in the right direction although it is always slower than we would like.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    How about you point out all the pitchers who vastly improved when they left the Twins?

    Pitchers get hurt, we have had a bad run of it over the past few years, they should examine the training staff and possibly make some changes, but it should be noted that the Royals have had 6 players end up getting Tommy John surgery this year, pitchers getting hurt is hardly a phenomenon that only effects the Twins.
    Dicky, Lohse, Humber and Marquis are 4 starters who have improved greatly after getting out from under Gardy/Andy. The fact that you couldn't come up with 1 name of a guy they have helped is telling in itself. I will give them credit for Diamond eventhough he made his adjustments at AAA after being sent down.

    I see your great medical staff strikes again! Capps to DL and now no trade value. How many times has the putrid medical staff rushed someone back or misdiagnosed an injury in recent years? The ex-Twins should file a class action lawsuit.
    Last edited by twinswon1991; 07-17-2012 at 06:55 PM.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinswon1991 View Post
    I see your great medical staff strikes again! Capps to DL and now no trade value. How many times has the putrid medical staff rushed someone back or misdiagnosed an injury in recent years? The ex-Twins should file a class action lawsuit.
    It's a pointless battle, Dave cannot and will not blame the Twins for anything. Bad trades, bad signings, bad coaching....doesn't matter.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mchans24 View Post
    I know this is a lot of ifs and buts but........ If Baker, Wimmers and Gibson don't get hurt our pitching depth looks pretty damn good!! Injuries happen......nothing we can do but rebuild and hope they get healthy. Twins have had a two year run of horrible luck piled on top of three years with Bill Smith as GM. Terry Ryan has us moving in the right direction although it is always slower than we would like.
    I would argue the depth still sucks, we would just be in a bit less of a very very dark and deep hole.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by DPJ View Post
    It's a pointless battle, Dave cannot and will not blame the Twins for anything. Bad trades, bad signings, bad coaching....doesn't matter.
    I think I finally realize that. Seeing his posts you would think the Twins had won a playoff game in the last 5 years, were in 1st place this year and had the best farm system in MLB.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinswon1991 View Post
    Dicky, Lohse, Humber and Marquis are 4 starters who have improved greatly after getting out from under Gardy/Andy. The fact that you couldn't come up with 1 name of a guy they have helped is telling in itself. I will give them credit for Diamond eventhough he made his adjustments at AAA after being sent down.
    I LOVE this argument.

    Lohse is the same pitcher away from the Twins that he was with the team. Don't believe me? Check the stats. League average before, league average afterward.

    Gardy and Andy never "got" Humber. He pitched 20 innings in Minnesota. Blame the front office for that one. They bailed on him for no good reason.

    RA Dickey is an aberration. Three teams before the Twins passed on him.

    Marquis? Really? That's an example you're going to use? He's 1-3 with a 4.75 ERA in the past month.

  7. #67
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    On the other hand, there is a quite lengthy list of pitchers who fell on their faces away from the Twins. But I'm sure you don't care about that, seeing how it defies your perceived reality.

  8. #68
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinswon1991 View Post
    Dicky, Lohse, Humber and Marquis are 4 starters who have improved greatly after getting out from under Gardy/Andy. The fact that you couldn't come up with 1 name of a guy they have helped is telling in itself. I will give them credit for Diamond eventhough he made his adjustments at AAA after being sent down.

    I see your great medical staff strikes again! Capps to DL and now no trade value. How many times has the putrid medical staff rushed someone back or misdiagnosed an injury in recent years? The ex-Twins should file a class action lawsuit.
    Dickey- Is a rare case, nobody saw his success coming, also I'm not going to fault Andy for not knowing how to teach the knuckle ball.
    Loshe- Basically the same dude, he has had a nice season or two but its because he is in the NL.
    Humber- Are we talking about the Phil Humber that has a 6.01 ERA this year?
    Marquis- He is a 5th starter in the NL, like many predicted he pitched poorly in the AL, seriously your reaching if you try to blame this on him.

    Success stories:
    Santana
    Silva for a few years
    Liriano
    Milton
    Romero
    Rincon
    Nathan
    Diamond
    Pavano?

  9. #69
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DPJ View Post
    It's a pointless battle, Dave cannot and will not blame the Twins for anything. Bad trades, bad signings, bad coaching....doesn't matter.
    I blame them for bad trades and bad signings all along. I thought Smith was an awful GM and repeated that at least 100x before he resigned.

    I didn't think the Marquis and Capps signings this year were the end of the world, though it would have been nice to get a pick for Capps. I wish they would have went with someone with a higher upside then Marquis, but at the end of the day he was a 1 year/3 mil contract. Also giving Zumaya any money guaranteed seemed and proved to be foolish.


    Anyways you and Twinswon1991 should hang out, he can throw out his "Mauer was on roids" comments and you can go on and on about how Cuddyer was the worst Twin in the history of baseball.
    Last edited by SpiritofVodkaDave; 07-17-2012 at 07:55 PM.

  10. #70
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edavis0308 View Post
    I would argue the depth still sucks, we would just be in a bit less of a very very dark and deep hole.
    FWIW: Pavano has also had injury issues which he had avoided during his stint with the Twins.

    If everyone was healthy a rotation of Baker, Liriano, Diamond, Gibson, Wimmers/Pavano/whoever wouldn't look half bad. Hopefully the Twins learn from this and get follow the old saying that you can never have enough pitching!

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    FWIW: Pavano has also had injury issues which he had avoided during his stint with the Twins.

    If everyone was healthy a rotation of Baker, Liriano, Diamond, Gibson, Wimmers/Pavano/whoever wouldn't look half bad. Hopefully the Twins learn from this and get follow the old saying that you can never have enough pitching!
    Well they didn't learn it last season and went into this season with the same tiny depth.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    FWIW: Pavano has also had injury issues which he had avoided during his stint with the Twins.

    If everyone was healthy a rotation of Baker, Liriano, Diamond, Gibson, Wimmers/Pavano/whoever wouldn't look half bad. Hopefully the Twins learn from this and get follow the old saying that you can never have enough pitching!
    Well that quality depth we have has been good enough to sport the worst ERA in baseball. Quality!

  13. #73
    Senior Member All-Star Badsmerf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DPJ View Post
    Well they didn't learn it last season and went into this season with the same tiny depth.
    I hope the front office has been humbled into being forced to change their views on some things. If they haven't, its going to be rough being a Twins fan for awhile.

  14. #74
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Name the number two pitchers (like, the 30-50th best pitchers in the league, maybe 20-35). Do we think it is LIKELY that Wimmers is (was) that? 20% likely? I just don’t think most pitchers reach that,
    This is a great point. I don't think a lot of people realize how few pitchers turn into #2s much less #1s. It's like some in here expect the Twins to get a 1 or 2 with every pick. Gibson and Wimmers were good picks. We can play the hindsight game as much as people want... means nothing. What good is that discussion?

  15. #75
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Gardy and Andy never "got" Humber. He pitched 20 innings in Minnesota. Blame the front office for that one. They bailed on him for no good reason.
    fHe was also horrible at AAA as well. Getting rid of Humber was fine.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    This is a great point. I don't think a lot of people realize how few pitchers turn into #2s much less #1s. It's like some in here expect the Twins to get a 1 or 2 with every pick. Gibson and Wimmers were good picks. We can play the hindsight game as much as people want... means nothing. What good is that discussion?
    Playing the hindsight game may sound like whining, but those that don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it. The fact is under Terry Ryan's leadersip the Twins have never drafted a starter who has made an All Star game. Like it or not there are compelling reasons to believe Ryan is not willing to learn from his mistakes.

  17. #77
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    How did a thread about prospects turn into a blame game and bitch fest on Wimmers? Playing "he sucks" card for an injured guy is just stupid. If you want to criticize use Madison Boer as an example, Yikes! He is stinking.

    To the subject at hand:
    Assuming Rosario bounces back from his injury, I fully expect him to be on this list next year. I think he will be a better overall player than Sano
    What more does Arcia have to do to get on this list? (besides hit LHP and not strike out so much)
    Kepler is hitting over .300 has an OPS almost .900 and he is just 19 years old. He could be on this list in a few years too.

    Whatever you haters think, there are somethings to be seriously excited about in the low low low minors.

  18. #78
    Senior Member Double-A COtwin's Avatar
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    I have to disagree with you on a couple of these. Marquis is just picking up were he left off. National league is the only place he can pitch. Lohse would be very helpful to our rotation, but who knows what his 2.80 and 1.10 whip look like in the AL. Call him a miss though. Humber had on game otherwise none of us would be talking about him. We already have enough ERAs over 5. Dickey, who knows. I don't think anyone saw this coming. Has to be Kilimanjaro related.

  19. #79
    Senior Member Double-A COtwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    This is a great point. I don't think a lot of people realize how few pitchers turn into #2s much less #1s. It's like some in here expect the Twins to get a 1 or 2 with every pick. Gibson and Wimmers were good picks. We can play the hindsight game as much as people want... means nothing. What good is that discussion?


    Great point. We used to be so blessed. We had a stable of #3 guys with upside like garza and baker we had an up and coming frankie and we had one of the 10 or so number #1s in Johan. Crazy how fast it can all just go away.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    fHe was also horrible at AAA as well. Getting rid of Humber was fine.
    They didn't have a wealth of pitching at the time. I didn't like the move then and I still don't like it now even though Humber has been ineffective this season.

    This organization hasn't really been in the position to throw away pitchers over the past 5-6 years.

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