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Thread: Is the Affiliation Dance about to begin?

  1. #81
    Senior Member All-Star Jim Crikket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by righty8383 View Post
    I heard a little of the interview with Terry Ryan on the 1500 pregame show. When asked about Rochester, he said the relationship is good and he hopes they will stay partners. When asked about Beloit, he was a lot less confident. He said a lot of details such as facilities and what not have to be worked out.
    I bumped into Doogie at Target Field right after he got that interview. He gave the same sentiment. That audio is apparently on the web site so I'm looking forward to listening to it. I asked Doogie if it sounded like the Twins are hesitating with Beloit while Rochester is hesitating with the Twins. He wasn't sure.
    I just listened to the interview (the affiliate question is at the very end) and I don't think there's any doubt that it's Rochester hesitating with the Twins and the Twins with Beloit. Ryan alluded a couple of times to having to wait for September for answers. But if both parties want to renew, there's no reason to wait. They can extend and announce it any time. The fact that he says it will be September before these situations are resolved tells us that, in each case, at least one party is planning on finding out what other options they may have. Logically, the parties interested in exploring possible options are Rochester at AAA and the Twins at A ball.
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  2. #82
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Crikket View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by righty8383 View Post
    I heard a little of the interview with Terry Ryan on the 1500 pregame show. When asked about Rochester, he said the relationship is good and he hopes they will stay partners. When asked about Beloit, he was a lot less confident. He said a lot of details such as facilities and what not have to be worked out.
    I bumped into Doogie at Target Field right after he got that interview. He gave the same sentiment. That audio is apparently on the web site so I'm looking forward to listening to it. I asked Doogie if it sounded like the Twins are hesitating with Beloit while Rochester is hesitating with the Twins. He wasn't sure.
    I just listened to the interview (the affiliate question is at the very end) and I don't think there's any doubt that it's Rochester hesitating with the Twins and the Twins with Beloit. Ryan alluded a couple of times to having to wait for September for answers. But if both parties want to renew, there's no reason to wait. They can extend and announce it any time. The fact that he says it will be September before these situations are resolved tells us that, in each case, at least one party is planning on finding out what other options they may have. Logically, the parties interested in exploring possible options are Rochester at AAA and the Twins at A ball.
    If that's the case with Rochester, I gotta think they're wondering about the Mets. If I was them, I would be.

    I'd kind of like my annual trip to Las Vegas to include a visit to my AAA Twins team. I don't know that I'll be said if it works out that way.

  3. #83
    Senior Member Triple-A jtrinaldi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kab21 View Post
    Imo it sounds like you could do a lot better than Beloit but not much worse.

    Compared to Rochester where you could do much, much worse. Player development in Las Vegas and several other western PCL cities is awful. It would be cool if you could get a team in the eastern PCL somewhere in the great plains (a franchise move would be required) but the international league is the best for player development.
    The only 2 sites that can be comparable to Beloit is Clinton and Burlington.
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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post

    I'd kind of like my annual trip to Las Vegas to include a visit to my AAA Twins team. I don't know that I'll be said if it works out that way.
    I know that watching baseball in 105F heat in Vegas would be on my to-do list.

  5. #85
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kab21 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post

    I'd kind of like my annual trip to Las Vegas to include a visit to my AAA Twins team. I don't know that I'll be said if it works out that way.
    I know that watching baseball in 105F heat in Vegas would be on my to-do list.
    I've been to a game there. I'll admit - its hot. But it's not a bad way to kill a weeknight in Vegas (or a weekend afternoon) without losing your shirt at a table. I'm a big fan of not being broke before 10:30 or so, so I like activities like that.

  6. #86
    I attended a game in Rochester in late July. What a dump! I would love to see our AAA guys get moved to just about anywhere else. The Mets can have Rochester any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

  7. #87
    you want to see if pitchers can make adjustments, see if guys like hendricks has what it takes, send them to vegas....home of arena baseball....

  8. #88
    Senior Member All-Star Jim Crikket's Avatar
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    I see Jim Mandelaro, the Wings beat writer for the local Rochester paper, has Tweeted that the Twins and Red Wings will announce a 2 year extension this afternoon (Friday 8/17). I guess that puts an end to that issue and leaves only the Class A question to be resolved.

    EDIT: Oops... I see Seth beat me to the punch on this and started a new "On the Farm" thread. Just can't stay ahead of Stohs!
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  9. #89
    Senior Member Triple-A jtrinaldi's Avatar
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    Giants re up with Augusta (Sally)
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  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kirbyelway View Post
    How about Sioux Falls SD, could they support a AAA franchise?

    Sioux Falls has the independent League Canaries. They draw under three thousand a game.

    To small a market.
    Now known as the pheasants.

  11. #91
    Senior Member All-Star Jim Crikket's Avatar
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    Seems premature, given the date teams can begin negotiations is still weeks away, but SunTimes is reporting that the Cubs are in the process of working out a PDC with Kane County, ending their MWL relationship with Peoria. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/14636...ne-county.html

    If that's true, it significantly improves the odds that the Twins end up in Cedar Rapids next year. The CR Board has notified the Angels that they are going to look at other options and hope to find a closer geographic MLB affiliate. I've heard their top two choices were the Cubs, if they left Peoria, and the Twins. If indeed the Cubs are off the board, that assures that the Twins are at the top of CR's list.

    Kane County has been affiliated with the Royals, so Kansas City would also meet the "geographic" requirement for Cedar Rapids (CR is about the same distance from MSP as it is KC), but the Royals are not seen as nearly the same local draw that the Twins are.
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  12. #92
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    Sioux Falls could/would support a AAA team. South Dakota is a baseball state, and Sioux Falls is a baseball city. Its just years of no names and poor marketing and then a pretty bad ownership change which has changed again (somewhat) and then a bad name change has caused problems. I think the problem with them would be the requirements to get build it up to a AAA facility. The stadium though nice only holds in the 4K-5K range.

    If it was to happen (hypothetically) I think it would require a direct ownership from the Twins, something where they bought the franchise, did the work to the facilities over the next 2 years and were ready to move there for the start of the 2015 year. (I can dream)

    What about St. Paul though, either AAA or low A. They have the same ownership group as the Miracle, they are close, they have a really good following, they need a new stadium. I understand why teams wouldn't want their AAA team or any minor league team so close, but at the same time it would have some benefits.

    I just hope the Twins are able to move a minor league affiliate closer to Minnesota/South Dakota

  13. #93
    Senior Member Triple-A jtrinaldi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Crikket View Post
    Seems premature, given the date teams can begin negotiations is still weeks away, but SunTimes is reporting that the Cubs are in the process of working out a PDC with Kane County, ending their MWL relationship with Peoria. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/14636...ne-county.html

    If that's true, it significantly improves the odds that the Twins end up in Cedar Rapids next year. The CR Board has notified the Angels that they are going to look at other options and hope to find a closer geographic MLB affiliate. I've heard their top two choices were the Cubs, if they left Peoria, and the Twins. If indeed the Cubs are off the board, that assures that the Twins are at the top of CR's list.

    Kane County has been affiliated with the Royals, so Kansas City would also meet the "geographic" requirement for Cedar Rapids (CR is about the same distance from MSP as it is KC), but the Royals are not seen as nearly the same local draw that the Twins are.
    http://www.pjstar.com/free/x91215388...to-Kane-County
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  14. #94
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    How much closer is Cedar Rapids than Beloit to MSP?

  15. #95
    Senior Member All-Star IdahoPilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darin Bratsch View Post
    How much closer is Cedar Rapids than Beloit to MSP?
    About 40 miles.

  16. #96
    If anything, I'd think that the Cubs going to Kane County would slightly decrease the chance of the Twins moving to Cedar Rapids, simply because it would put the Royals in play - although I'd still think the Twins would have the edge in CR.

    I really don't think Cedar Rapids ever had a shot at the Cubs. The Cubs are the most desirable team for more than half the MWL, and with so many options closer to Chicago, Cedar Rapids just seems like it would have been low on their priority list. I'd even think the Indiana options would be a bit unlikely, considering that the Cubs are hoping the state of Illinois will throw in some cash for Wrigley improvements and having a minor league team leave the state wouldn't help their cause. Then again, the Cubs were in Lansing Michigan before the last big affiliate swap in 06.

    CR is about 40 miles closer to MSP than Beloit, but clearly has better facilities and there are probably more natural Twins fans than in Beloit, which is only an hour from Milwaukee and less than 2 from Chicago (although you'll see lots of Twins gear at a Snappers game). CR is the closest affiliate to the Twin Cities. Appleton is about the same distance as CR, but they're a Brewers affiliate and won't change any time soon. Next would be Beloit and Clinton, which are both about the same distance from MSP, but Beloit is much easier to get to since Clinton isn't near any major highway or airport.

  17. #97
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    Good lord, the Cubs and Cardinals have basically swapped this affiliate for the last three decades? What kind of turmoil does changing allegiances between bitter rivals cause the fan base? I think this reflects the situation with Rochester's ambivilant fanbase. Signing with an affiliate doesn't necessarily buy the loyalty of the locals.

  18. #98
    Senior Member All-Star IdahoPilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    Good lord, the Cubs and Cardinals have basically swapped this affiliate for the last three decades? What kind of turmoil does changing allegiances between bitter rivals cause the fan base? I think this reflects the situation with Rochester's ambivilant fanbase. Signing with an affiliate doesn't necessarily buy the loyalty of the locals.
    I was living near Peoria when they switched from the Cardinals to the Cubs. It didn't really change fan interest all that much. There were a few Cardinals fans who were mildly unhappy, and a few Cubs fans who were mildly pleased, but overall it didn't seem to matter.

  19. #99
    Senior Member All-Star Jim Crikket's Avatar
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    nowheresville: You're probably right about CR not having a good shot at landing the Cubs affiliation, considering there are so many other expiring PDCs in the MWL. That said, I think the Kernels BOD may have been thinking that Des Moines having the Cubs AAA team may have helped. Front office types are always looking for ways to make the most of their time and "clustering" affiliates geographically is one way some MLB teams are doing that. That said, I know there's at least one CR BOD member who really did NOT want the Cubs as an affiliate, but I think that member was in the minority.

    sbknudson: I think you may be right about it not being a huge deal when a minor league team changes affiliations between two teams that each have a significant fan base in the area, such as the Cubs and Cardinals in Peoria. I do think it will make a difference if Peoria ends up affiliated with a MLB team that has little or no presence in the area, though. Just as I believe it will have a positive effect in CR if the Kernels can catch on with a midwestern MLB team. Even after a 20 year affiliation, you still see 10 times as much Twins, Cubs and Cardinals gear at a Kernels game than you do Angels attire (though one or two regulars are sporting new Mike Trout jerseys this season).

    There's also another little wild card in play here and that's the Cardinals. I think the Quad Cities would like to keep them, but since no extension has been signed, we're left to assume that St Louis or QC is interested in exploring other options. Would they go back to Peoria if the Cubs vacated? Or would they look toward Cedar Rapids where there's some fanbase, but it could certainly stand to be increased? Just as I think it would make sense for the Twins to try to develop a stronger presence and perhaps increase media (TV/radio) market in Eastern Iowa, the same could be said for St Louis.

    While Kansas City is about the same distance from CR as StL and MSP, I just don't see the same dynamic in play for the Royals. I haven't seen Royals gear around town since local boy John Wathan was suiting up for the Landed Gentry.
    Last edited by Jim Crikket; 08-22-2012 at 09:07 AM.
    I opine about the Twins and Kernels regularly at Knuckleballsblog.com while my alter ego, SD Buhr covers the Kernels for MetroSportsReport.com.

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  20. #100
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Speaking of the MWL affiliation changes, I think it will be interesting to see the attendance numbers (which indicate at least fan loyalty to the local team) . Data from here and about a week old. (Average home game attendance for 2012 is listed)
    Dayton Dragons
    8,514

    Fort Wayne TinCaps
    5,662

    Kane County Cougars
    5,375


    Lansing Lugnuts
    5,035

    West Michigan Whitecaps
    4,940

    Great Lakes Loons
    3,520

    Lake County Captains
    3,517

    Quad Cities River Bandits
    3,485


    Wisconsin Timber Rattlers
    3,446

    Bowling Green Hot Rods
    3,359

    Peoria Chiefs
    2,767


    South Bend Silver Hawks
    2,663

    Cedar Rapids Kernels
    2,291


    Clinton LumberKings
    1,570

    Beloit Snappers
    981


    Burlington Bees
    862


    I highlighted the team in play. There is huge variability in fan loyalty there... (and infrastructure as well) So there is a pecking (or picking) order.
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