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Thread: Article: What if the Twins do Nothing Today?

  1. #21
    This teams needs way too much help to stand pat at the trade deadline. We don't need Span and Willingham to help us win a playoff series in 2017 or whenever. They've lowered the payroll enough that if they have to eat some of Morneua's contract to get a decent prospect they need to.

    I'll be very disappointed if they stand pat this year. (Understanding, of course, that if the offers aren't there you don't make a move. That will just shift my frustrations from the FO to the Universe)

  2. #22
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Honestly, I'd be dissapointed is if they don't trade Carroll today, or if you won't trade Carroll trade Alexi for anything you can get.

    I'd prefer we trade Span for some great package today as well but I just don't think it is out there at this point, maybe the trade market in the off-season will be better.

    I'd like to hold onto Willingham and Morneau on into next season, unless we are blown away by an offer.

    Pavano and Capps should both be dealt in August

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Chance View Post
    With regards to the lineup, if Danny V has more games like last night I think it's not out of the question to move Plouffe to 2nd. Then we would be set for 8 spots. Plouffe filled in a little at 2nd this year and I thought he looked pretty comfortable there. I know that many will say he just got comfortable at third but given the full time starting 2nd base job I think he can hold that down.
    But what would make us think that Danny V is going to have more nights like that? He's just not a very good baseball player who has gotten worse over the last 2 years.

  4. #24
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Honestly, I'd be dissapointed is if they don't trade Carroll today, or if you won't trade Carroll trade Alexi for anything you can get.

    I'd prefer we trade Span for some great package today as well but I just don't think it is out there at this point, maybe the trade market in the off-season will be better.

    I'd like to hold onto Willingham and Morneau on into next season, unless we are blown away by an offer.

    Pavano and Capps should both be dealt in August
    Pretty much this. Take what you can get for either Alexi or Carroll today.

    Aggressively push Willingham, Span, and Perkins. Trade if the right deal comes along.

    Listen to offers on Morneau.

  5. #25
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UCLA_YANKEE_COLA View Post
    But what would make us think that Danny V is going to have more nights like that? He's just not a very good baseball player who has gotten worse over the last 2 years.
    Unless Danny V turns it around in a big way I can't see him being apart of this org heading into 2013.

  6. #26
    Senior Member All-Star Jim Crikket's Avatar
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    On the nose, Seth!

    People get some kind of "fever" at the end of July and think everything has to be done NOW. It's simply not true. The reason you make a big deal now, as a seller, is that the deadline is when contending teams tend to overpay for talent. If you're the GM of a seller, you do exactly what TR is doing... wait for someone to offer to overpay for your guys. If you don't get a home run of an offer, there's no reason to make a deal right now. The offseason will see more teams interested in improving for 2013 when they can all start fresh. (Think the Mariners and Cubs won't be interested in hitters during the offseason?)

    I also don't see why it should be depressing if TR indicates a belief the team can be built to compete within the Division in 2013. That doesn't preclude improving enough to go deeper in 2014 when you'd hope some of the Twins prospects are closer to stepping up. You're more likely to go deeper in 2014 if you've at least rebuilt a sense of competitiveness in the clubhouse in 2013.

    There's simply no rush to dismantle your offense just because your pitching needs improvement. If TR isn't allowed to spend the money to improve pitching in the offseason, THEN fans can legitimately complain (as we did last offseason for the same reason).

  7. #27
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    I think that here is part of the root of the problem with this team:
    According to Twins mlb.com writer Rhett Bollinger, the Twins are 34-32 since May 16th. If not for a horrendous first six weeks of the season, the Twins could be in contention for a playoff spot. Maybe this team isn’t as far away from contending for a playoff berth as we think?
    a. you cannot cut the season in chunks look at the best chunk and hope that what happened then is the "truth". They did that last season, stayed put at the deadline and ended up losing 99. Lesson not learned?

    b. if we are ok with them making the post-season instead of being competitive in the post-season and making and winning the World Series, it will never happen.


    Back to the original premise, if they do nothing, it will reinforce my belief that for the Twins to win (see b. above - which have not done until MacPhail was the GM) this whole front office team needs to go from the top to the bottom and new blood needs to come...
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  8. #28
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer mikeee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
    The Twins are 34-32 since May 16th?

    The first six weeks of the season are inextricably tied to the team's record. A bad six-week stretch can't be overlooked because of a mediocre eight-week stretch.

    The 2011 Twins during that same period from May 16th to July 30th were 38-30.
    They had a lot of players in and out of the lineup during that time that are gone now.
    Sean Burroughs is gone, Luke Hughes, Clete Thomas, Jason Marquis.
    Ben Revere was in the minors then too. I think they did a lot of experimenting and it all failed.
    Now they have solidified the lineup. Capps and Pavano have not been a part of this winning, so we can see they
    are not needed.

    2011, they sure put together a big steak. I do remember that.

  9. #29
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    This is a Twins team witt one glaring weakness: Starting Pitching. Fix that and their won loss record turns aroundf fast. They have a great line-up, adequate defense (it could be better) and decent relief pitching. Despite their record, this is not a time to completely blow up the roster with bad trades (but they should always be open to improve the team through good trades, there should be very few untouchables on this team). The formula for success in the next five years is to add to the starting pitching staff now and add one or two rookies a season to maintain adequacy to excellence. Add one or two free agent starters (or thru trades) and hope for Baker to bounce back, and Hendrix and Gibson to provide some help sometime next year. The Twins will just have to eat Blackburn's contract if they are fortunate enough to put together a decent rotation which makes Blackie expendable.

  10. #30
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeee View Post
    They had a lot of players in and out of the lineup during that time that are gone now.
    Sean Burroughs is gone, Luke Hughes, Clete Thomas, Jason Marquis.
    Ben Revere was in the minors then too. I think they did a lot of experimenting and it all failed.
    Now they have solidified the lineup. Capps and Pavano have not been a part of this winning, so we can see they
    are not needed.

    2011, they sure put together a big steak. I do remember that.
    They put together a big streak right before the deadline causing them to only be like 5 or so games out of first place at the time.

    Also I think you are forgetting Plouffe as anohter guy who really wasn't playing at the start of the season, also Mauer and Morneau both started rather slow coming back from injuries.

    I have said it before and will say it again, with this current roster the Twins are basically a .500 team, the hitting, defense and bullpen are all good enough to compete (could upgrades be made? Sure), its going to all come down to the starting pitching moving forward into 2013 onwards.

    I'd say this team is 3 SP away from competing next year, ideally Gibson and Hendriks could be two of those pitchers and Ryan can go out and spend his money on a guy like Sanchez for the third.

  11. #31
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    Excellent article, Seth, you nailed it. No need for a fire sale today. Nice to see that folks have mostly walked back from jumping off the cliff, and the comments are more reasonable today and less visceral (with a couple of exceptions).

    I like the suggestion of leaving Valencia at 3rd and putting Plouffe at 2nd when he returns. May not work out, but it has tremendous upside; why not use the next couple of months to make a determination for next year.

  12. #32
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    If they do nothing, put Gardy on waivers and see if anyone will claim him.

  13. #33
    Senior Member All-Star Jim Crikket's Avatar
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    Frankly, there is NOTHING Ryan can do that will satisfy some people, short of pulling off highway robbery deals. If he makes deals, he isn't getting enough... or the right guys... or the best guys... or... or... or. If he makes no deals, he's a bum. By the way. the great MacPhail has pretty much been considered MacFAIL by the fan base of every organization he's gone to since he left the Twins.

    I'm constantly amazed that some people think the answer to every challenge is to trade/fire everyone and then magically the team will go from sellers at the deadline to the World Series without having to bother first working their way back in to contending status.

    If only all the world's problems could be solved this way.
    I opine about the Twins and Kernels regularly at Knuckleballsblog.com while my alter ego, SD Buhr covers the Kernels for MetroSportsReport.com.

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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    They put together a big streak right before the deadline causing them to only be like 5 or so games out of first place at the time.

    Also I think you are forgetting Plouffe as anohter guy who really wasn't playing at the start of the season, also Mauer and Morneau both started rather slow coming back from injuries.

    I have said it before and will say it again, with this current roster the Twins are basically a .500 team, the hitting, defense and bullpen are all good enough to compete (could upgrades be made? Sure), its going to all come down to the starting pitching moving forward into 2013 onwards.

    I'd say this team is 3 SP away from competing next year, ideally Gibson and Hendriks could be two of those pitchers and Ryan can go out and spend his money on a guy like Sanchez for the third.
    Yeah, I mostly feel like this too. I think we need more improvement from first base but I'm all right with giving Morneau the at bats to get back into shape. Obviously, the MI is still a problem but with good starting pitching, I think this team could compete for the central. But with Arcia/Hicks somewhat close, I really hope the Twins get a great deal for Span.

  15. #35
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    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Gun View Post
    I don't expect the dead ass Twins to make a trade, because they never work at it.
    As you watch other teams improve rosters today the Twins will be left with this overpriced underachieving junk heap of a roster that wouldn't contend if you contracted half the American League.

    The most ridiculous thing ever written has to be, "If not for a horrendous 6 weeks." This is one of the 3 worst teams in the majors. You can't ignore all the losses and call them a contender. For 2 years they have proved their pitching is horrible, Mauer doesn't make them better, Morneau is never going to be the player he was, they don't have infielders that can bat over .250, they have a glut of outfielders, they can't develop players, get worked at the trade deadline, and they absolutely REFUSE to spend money on what any championship team needs, an ace starting pitcher.

    It is what it is. They are no more a contender than the Vikings are. the only difference is it doesn't appear the Twins even understand what their plan is to get better.

  16. #36
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer J-Dog Dungan's Avatar
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    Honestly, Liriano was the only piece the Twins had that they HAD to move. If they don't get what they are asking for for anybody else, well then, sucks.

  17. #37
    Senior Member All-Star Boom Boom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    They put together a big streak right before the deadline causing them to only be like 5 or so games out of first place at the time.

    Also I think you are forgetting Plouffe as anohter guy who really wasn't playing at the start of the season, also Mauer and Morneau both started rather slow coming back from injuries.

    I have said it before and will say it again, with this current roster the Twins are basically a .500 team, the hitting, defense and bullpen are all good enough to compete (could upgrades be made? Sure), its going to all come down to the starting pitching moving forward into 2013 onwards.


    I'd say this team is 3 SP away from competing next year, ideally Gibson and Hendriks could be two of those pitchers and Ryan can go out and spend his money on a guy like Sanchez for the third.
    If a team has offense, defense and bullpen that are good enough to compete, and still needs three starters, I don't think they're quite a .500 team.

  18. #38
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    I am pretty tired of the attacks on people on this site, rather than their ideas. Is there a reason we cannot disagree reasonably, without exaggerating everything the "other side" says?

  19. #39
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer mikeee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    They put together a big streak right before the deadline causing them to only be like 5 or so games out of first place at the time.

    Also I think you are forgetting Plouffe as anohter guy who really wasn't playing at the start of the season, also Mauer and Morneau both started rather slow coming back from injuries.

    I have said it before and will say it again, with this current roster the Twins are basically a .500 team, the hitting, defense and bullpen are all good enough to compete (could upgrades be made? Sure), its going to all come down to the starting pitching moving forward into 2013 onwards.

    I'd say this team is 3 SP away from competing next year, ideally Gibson and Hendriks could be two of those pitchers and Ryan can go out and spend his money on a guy like Sanchez for the third.
    yeah, I didn't get all the details.
    I won't feel that bad if they don't make any moves here. Maybe getting rid of a little more salary with Capps and Pavano will
    give them some to spend on a SP.

  20. #40
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
    If a team has offense, defense and bullpen that are good enough to compete, and still needs three starters, I don't think they're quite a .500 team.
    They have been playing like a .500 team ever since Mauer/Morneau started preforming, Plouffe was given playing time, Diamond was moved into the rotation etc.

    Coming into the year I thought they would win anywhere between 78-83 games, I didn't expect the rotation to be this bad, but the offense and bullpen have been better than what I thought. They still have a shot to win 78 games.

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