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Thread: Paul Ryan!!!

  1. #81
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    Watching Fox News again?
    More like mainlining it, with a slight mix of cocaine to keep him up for more FoxNews.
    Staff Writer for Tomahawktake.com, come check it out!

  2. #82
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Ben - that just speaks again to the desperate need to reform. Reform doesn't have to mean cuts in dollars, but it may mean substantial changes from what people are currently comfortable with.
    Exactly. What I am uncomfortable with in anything Ryan has ever said or proposed is the drastic cuts in dollars right off the top. Now, I'm not saying that there wouldn't be a lowering in dollars required after some changes in the programs at hand, but making the initial goal money-saving is exactly what has gotten the programs to where they are now as far as enforcement because people go ballistic about a baby living in filth and its mommy not having the money for formula, but they don't worry a bit about how the person who's supposed to keep that baby fed and clothed and the mom just trying to exploit the system separated paid and happy. Those overseeing the programs are the easy cutbacks in a money-saving initiative. They're rewarded in a program-enhancing initiative, which likely would end up saving nearly the same money with better results.
    Staff Writer for Tomahawktake.com, come check it out!

  3. #83
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggentleben View Post
    They're rewarded in a program-enhancing initiative, which likely would end up saving nearly the same money with better results.
    I think this is the way to go - programs need to have a positive spin to them, but we can't shy from a reform simply because we use the term reform. I think more people would agree with that if it was better presented, unfortunately neither side is really working to that outcome.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeer View Post
    It's amazing how much the mainstream media is turning on Obama in the last few days. Probably because they know whats in Romneys tax returns and are sick of the Democrats trying to make that a story.
    Single source news will never get you anywhere. Romney's ideas can not be held up for scrutiny because he proposes nothing concrete. The mainstream media portrays Ryan's plans as what they are. The debate over them is minimal as he is in a minimal position at this point. Romney after stating he was for the Ryan budget plan has backed off. Vagueness is Romney.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeer View Post
    It's amazing how much the mainstream media is turning on Obama in the last few days. Probably because they know whats in Romneys tax returns and are sick of the Democrats trying to make that a story.
    Single source news will never get you anywhere. Romney's ideas can not be held up for scrutiny because he proposes nothing concrete. The mainstream media portrays Ryan's plans as what they are. The debate over them is minimal as he is in a minimal position at this point. Romney after stating he was for the Ryan budget plan has backed off. Vagueness is Romney.
    Are Matt Lauer and Wolf Blitzer a single source? Pro Obama guest are no longer being allowed to get away with spewing talking points and moving on.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeer View Post
    It's amazing how much the mainstream media is turning on Obama in the last few days. Probably because they know whats in Romneys tax returns and are sick of the Democrats trying to make that a story.
    Single source news will never get you anywhere. Romney's ideas can not be held up for scrutiny because he proposes nothing concrete. The mainstream media portrays Ryan's plans as what they are. The debate over them is minimal as he is in a minimal position at this point. Romney after stating he was for the Ryan budget plan has backed off. Vagueness is Romney.
    Are Matt Lauer and Wolf Blitzer a single source? Pro Obama guest are no longer being allowed to get away with spewing talking points and moving on.
    Your first comment to me is typical of the fox news/talk radio types. Your second comment only proves it. You are at a computer, learn how to use it. The bit about pro Obama. Is anyone who disagrees with you automatically become pro Obama? Are you suddenly the moderator for the board?
    Last edited by old nurse; 08-15-2012 at 07:39 AM.

  7. #87
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    paul-ryan-truth.jpg

    sounds like one more big government republican to me who only cares about small government when a democrat is in office... Vote Gary Johnson.

  8. #88
    Senior Member All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    paul-ryan-truth.jpg

    sounds like one more big government republican to me who only cares about small government when a democrat is in office... Vote Gary Johnson.
    Right, when it's politically convenient, Ryan has no problem spending money. Though I do believe him that he'd gut government spending with an ax.

  9. #89
    Senior Member All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeer View Post
    Don't worry I understand. Political cheap shots are OK, calling someone out on them is not OK. The discussion was about charitable giving not the mormon church. I understand people want to project a boogieman image on Mitt Romney, but you have to expect when people from your side use the word immoral a significantly less insulting word might be used in response.
    When Mitt Romney sits down in front of his computer and registers on Twins Daily, I'll worry about political cheap shots sent across his bow.
    When you call Mitt Romney immoral for giving to charity your calling me immoral, and I'm going to take that personally. You got that? Or is that to difficult to understand in the era of Andrea Mitchell and MSNBC?
    I wanted to let this sit a couple days. But no where did I call Romney immoral. I just think he shouldn't get a tax break for donating to his church. Fatbeer inferred this from when I said, "I have nothing against religious people, I have something against moral people." Which is just a generalization, and not specifically targeted at anyone, obviously.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    paul-ryan-truth.jpg

    sounds like one more big government republican to me who only cares about small government when a democrat is in office... Vote Gary Johnson.
    One of the main reasons Gary Johnson didn't vote for a lot of those things is because he wasn't a member of congress. The list of people who have been in congress and voted the way I would like on fiscal matters is limited to pretty much Michele Bachmann and Ron Paul, and Bachmann is so flawed in other ways she's not worth discussing. The "Tea Party" was born in spring of 2009 and created a new era of Republicans which Paul Ryan seems to fit in. I have always been on board with "Tea Party" principals, but it took a really safe district or a lot of courage to take a "Tea Party" vote that would not change an outcome prior to 2009.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    paul-ryan-truth.jpg

    sounds like one more big government republican to me who only cares about small government when a democrat is in office... Vote Gary Johnson.
    One of the main reasons Gary Johnson didn't vote for a lot of those things is because he wasn't a member of congress. The list of people who have been in congress and voted the way I would like on fiscal matters is limited to pretty much Michele Bachmann and Ron Paul, and Bachmann is so flawed in other ways she's not worth discussing. The "Tea Party" was born in spring of 2009 and created a new era of Republicans which Paul Ryan seems to fit in. I have always been on board with "Tea Party" principals, but it took a really safe district or a lot of courage to take a "Tea Party" vote that would not change an outcome prior to 2009.
    I voted Ron Paul in teh primary, but he won't be on the ballot. True that Gary Johnson wasn't in Congress, but he does have a track record as the Governor or New Mexico... He used the veto stamp something like 700 times.

  12. #92
    Super Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeer View Post
    Don't worry I understand. Political cheap shots are OK, calling someone out on them is not OK. The discussion was about charitable giving not the mormon church. I understand people want to project a boogieman image on Mitt Romney, but you have to expect when people from your side use the word immoral a significantly less insulting word might be used in response.
    When Mitt Romney sits down in front of his computer and registers on Twins Daily, I'll worry about political cheap shots sent across his bow.
    When you call Mitt Romney immoral for giving to charity your calling me immoral, and I'm going to take that personally. You got that? Or is that to difficult to understand in the era of Andrea Mitchell and MSNBC?
    Exhibit A as to why your country is getting nowhere.

  13. #93
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by brock beauchamp View Post
    when mitt romney sits down in front of his computer and registers on twins daily, i'll worry about political cheap shots sent across his bow.
    when you call mitt romney immoral for giving to charity your calling me immoral, and i'm going to take that personally. You got that? Or is that to difficult to understand in the era of andrea mitchell and msnbc?
    It does not give you license to insult another poster. Period. End of discussion.

    Have I made myself clear enough yet?

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by brock beauchamp View Post
    when mitt romney sits down in front of his computer and registers on twins daily, i'll worry about political cheap shots sent across his bow.
    when you call mitt romney immoral for giving to charity your calling me immoral, and i'm going to take that personally. You got that? Or is that to difficult to understand in the era of andrea mitchell and msnbc?
    It does not give you license to insult another poster. Period. End of discussion.

    Have I made myself clear enough yet?
    Nice bold cap locks post to a response to a 4 day old post. There is no personal insult that would be good enough to describe what you just did. WOW. Grow up.

  15. #95
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    You just insulted me personally in case you don't get it. Sorry for disagreeing with your politics.

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    By the way since I always get accused of watching fox news, which I don't do all that often because I can agree with myself in my own head, watched MSNBC all morning and haven't been couldn't be more confident about what will happen in 82 days. This was the week to define Paul Ryan as the wrong choice for VP and instead this week has been about reliving every Joe Biden gaffe relentlessly on even the most loyal network. if in 30 hours Paul Ryan still isn't destroyed the Democrats will have lost a must win week going into the conventions. Polls open in 1966 hours!!!

  17. #97
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Okay, you're done. Take a week off the forum. In no way did I "personally insult" you. I warned you politely multiple times and you. just. don't. get. it.

    To be clear for the final time, it does not matter what another poster has or has not done to you (or in this case, Mitt Romney). If you have a problem with a post, you report it and let the moderator staff at TD handle the situation. You do not start a flame war, you do not insult the poster (especially when the original "insult" was specious at best and definitely not directed at you personally) and you do not continue arguing with a moderator after being warned.

  18. #98
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    I really think the Republicans have set themselves up with another 4 years of Obama. Romney was by far the worst choice of the four that lasted deep into the primaries. His base has no reason to get excited about it. His VP choice is nothing but a bunch or rhetoric, but when it comes to actual results, has been very inconsistent... Ryan, BTW, used to be my Congressman. I don't get the love for the guy. He started talking the talk after Obama got elected, but never bothered to stand up to Bush and his big government ways. Voters still remember that, and handing Romney the President with a Republican congress will not lead to less debt... If history is any indication, it will lead to sizably more.

    By refusing to hold Bush accountable in 2004, the Republicans rolled out the red carpet for Obama in 2008, and while I don't think his election will be nearly the landslide it was in 2008, I really think they are handing it to him again in 2012... when people like my parents are voting for Obama, I know Romney is in trouble.

  19. #99
    Looks like I picked a bad week to be busy supporting the welfare state. I'm glad Lev was here to appropriately counter most of Pseudo's drivel but since I was personally attacked I'm going to take some time to personally respond, even though it might give the impression that I give half a crap about message board credibility. I made a blunt statement about the stupid semantics thrown about by the left and their (I hope that's proper usage) media, God Bless Lev for taking the time to write the volumes to help explain the nuances. I got what I wanted, which was a pretty good discussion started but unfortunately haven't had the time to participate. I have all the credibility I need in real life and have a plenty of ability to articulate what I believe in. The more I read from you, the more I see that you struggle to have something to believe in.

    Getting back to the meat of the discussion, I read this thread 3-4 times and keep coming back to these gems.
    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    What about people that can't or won't care for themselves?
    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    I want a plan to take care of the lazy, not leave them out.
    These quotes tell me everything I need to know about your viewpoint. Even if these are throwaway lines to everyone else, they speak volumes about your disdain for basic personal responsibility which is the bedrock of a functional capitalistic society. You are correct if you assume that I don't care about the people that won't care for themselves, I do care very deeply about those that can't. The elderly fall into the can't work category, by the way, just to cut off that talking point. They have worked, paid into the plan and earned the benefits. You seem to want to take care of people cradle to the grave, because it makes you feel better. Won't work, eventually the workers will stop working.

    I do have a plan for the lazy, it's called the Freedom to Fail Plan (trademark) I personally have known scores of people who don't want to work, who would love to sit home and be taken care of and under your philosophy I guess they won't have to. The problem is that these people have made a basic choice, that government dependency doesn't pay well enough to support the quality of life that they want for themselves and their families. They also enjoy the freedom to succeed that my Freedom to Fail Plan offers.

    These statements reflect your basic misunderstanding of human nature. People will rise to the level of what is expected of them. If you create a culture that says it's OK to be dependent on the government, that is what you will get. The left mostly (the right has played along) has worked very hard to remove negative stigma from failure in order to create a dependent class. The government depends on dependency, dependency minimizes accountability. Republicans and Democrats are both guilty. Paul Ryan deserves some legitimate criticism here but at least he is raising the issues to be discussed. The disastrous culture of the ruling class congress can't be changed overnight.

    If you can't make the distinction between can't and won't, nothing anyone here says can help you. Feel free to wallow in your liberal academia vacuum.

  20. #100
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jocko87 View Post
    Looks like I picked a bad week to be busy supporting the welfare state. I'm glad Lev was here to appropriately counter most of Pseudo's drivel but since I was personally attacked I'm going to take some time to personally respond, even though it might give the impression that I give half a crap about message board credibility. I made a blunt statement about the stupid semantics thrown about by the left and their (I hope that's proper usage) media, God Bless Lev for taking the time to write the volumes to help explain the nuances. I got what I wanted, which was a pretty good discussion started but unfortunately haven't had the time to participate. I have all the credibility I need in real life and have a plenty of ability to articulate what I believe in. The more I read from you, the more I see that you struggle to have something to believe in.

    Getting back to the meat of the discussion, I read this thread 3-4 times and keep coming back to these gems.
    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    What about people that can't or won't care for themselves?
    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    I want a plan to take care of the lazy, not leave them out.
    These quotes tell me everything I need to know about your viewpoint. Even if these are throwaway lines to everyone else, they speak volumes about your disdain for basic personal responsibility which is the bedrock of a functional capitalistic society. You are correct if you assume that I don't care about the people that won't care for themselves, I do care very deeply about those that can't. The elderly fall into the can't work category, by the way, just to cut off that talking point. They have worked, paid into the plan and earned the benefits. You seem to want to take care of people cradle to the grave, because it makes you feel better. Won't work, eventually the workers will stop working.

    I do have a plan for the lazy, it's called the Freedom to Fail Plan (trademark) I personally have known scores of people who don't want to work, who would love to sit home and be taken care of and under your philosophy I guess they won't have to. The problem is that these people have made a basic choice, that government dependency doesn't pay well enough to support the quality of life that they want for themselves and their families. They also enjoy the freedom to succeed that my Freedom to Fail Plan offers.

    These statements reflect your basic misunderstanding of human nature. People will rise to the level of what is expected of them. If you create a culture that says it's OK to be dependent on the government, that is what you will get. The left mostly (the right has played along) has worked very hard to remove negative stigma from failure in order to create a dependent class. The government depends on dependency, dependency minimizes accountability. Republicans and Democrats are both guilty. Paul Ryan deserves some legitimate criticism here but at least he is raising the issues to be discussed. The disastrous culture of the ruling class congress can't be changed overnight.

    If you can't make the distinction between can't and won't, nothing anyone here says can help you. Feel free to wallow in your liberal academia vacuum.
    While I agree with your points on the surface, the practicality of "Freedom To Fail" has some pretty awful side effects, the largest being "what do you do with these peoples' children?" Do you doom their children to failure as well? Unless you actually remove the children from their parents' care, you're essentially writing them off. There goes another generation. Rinse, repeat, you have a permanent underclass in 30 years.

    This conversation should be far more nuanced than "let the bastards die in the streets". That won't get us anywhere as a nation... Not anywhere we want to go, anyway.

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