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Thread: Twins vs Mariners, 08-18-2012, 8:10pm

  1. #41
    Head Moderator All-Star glunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbknudson View Post
    OK, is anybody else a little disappointed with this? I know a walk is usually a good thing, but given the situation wouldn't you rather have Mauer hit as opposed to Willingham? Having him load the bases doesn't do anything if Josh can't get a hit, and he's slumping a bit right now.
    I was happy to get the walk.

  2. #42
    Head Moderator All-Star glunn's Avatar
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    Not a great result from the hammer. Time for me to pick up dinner.

  3. #43
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
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    Doesn't Mauer want to be the guy to win the game? The second strike he took was right down the middle. Compare that to Morneau.
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

  4. #44
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbknudson View Post
    OK, is anybody else a little disappointed with this? I know a walk is usually a good thing, but given the situation wouldn't you rather have Mauer hit as opposed to Willingham? Having him load the bases doesn't do anything if Josh can't get a hit, and he's slumping a bit right now.
    Right, if they throw you 4 straight balls or even one strike you don't like that's one thing. But to be a franchise player and pass up even swinging at one of the two strikes, the second strike right in the happy zone--only to work a walk... that's way too passive, to be polite, and down right cowardly to be accurate.
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

  5. #45
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    Mauer takes a pitch right down the middle every AB

  6. #46
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
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    Gotta laugh, right?
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

  7. #47
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sbknudson View Post
    OK, is anybody else a little disappointed with this? I know a walk is usually a good thing, but given the situation wouldn't you rather have Mauer hit as opposed to Willingham? Having him load the bases doesn't do anything if Josh can't get a hit, and he's slumping a bit right now.
    Right, if they throw you 4 straight balls or even one strike you don't like that's one thing. But to be a franchise player and pass up even swinging at one of the two strikes, the second strike right in the happy zone--only to work a walk... that's way too passive, to be polite, and down right cowardly to be accurate.
    He was sitting on a fast ball on the 3-1 count, there is no reason for him to swing at a breaking ball there considering all he would have managed to do would be to get crappy contact/foul ball on it. It was a hell of a pitch.

    The team's MVP who has 31 HR was on deck and had the bases loaded, Mauer had a nice at bat and extended the inning. Him taking a hack on the 3-1 breaking ball isn't the correct play.

  8. #48
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    Another L that should have been a W

  9. #49
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Yeah, that's how a catcher playing OF prepares for a tag....

  10. #50
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
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    Dave, we didn't need 4 RBI, just one. Mauer's RISP is pretty, pretty good and average way better than Hammer. Yeah, he is probably sitting dead red on fastball, but he's supposed to be able to handle a slider over the plate. At least offer at it.
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

  11. #51
    Senior Member All-Star IdahoPilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sbknudson View Post
    OK, is anybody else a little disappointed with this? I know a walk is usually a good thing, but given the situation wouldn't you rather have Mauer hit as opposed to Willingham? Having him load the bases doesn't do anything if Josh can't get a hit, and he's slumping a bit right now.
    Right, if they throw you 4 straight balls or even one strike you don't like that's one thing. But to be a franchise player and pass up even swinging at one of the two strikes, the second strike right in the happy zone--only to work a walk... that's way too passive, to be polite, and down right cowardly to be accurate.
    He was sitting on a fast ball on the 3-1 count, there is no reason for him to swing at a breaking ball there considering all he would have managed to do would be to get crappy contact/foul ball on it. It was a hell of a pitch.

    The team's MVP who has 31 HR was on deck and had the bases loaded, Mauer had a nice at bat and extended the inning. Him taking a hack on the 3-1 breaking ball isn't the correct play.
    I should be clear, I was not implying that Mauer did something wrong (I'm not schooled enough in the game to be able to judge that) - I was just expressing my frustration at how the at-bat turned out. Mauer is a better hitter than Willingham (and he's certainly more reliable right now), and a solid hit from him puts the Twins up. If the Seattle pitcher did a good job not giving Mauer something to hit, kudos to him. It still left a bitter taste in my mouth.

  12. #52
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    Caught it. Paused. Threw a rainbow 30 feet left of the plate. They should have him in one of their after game "instructionals"

  13. #53
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted666 View Post
    Caught it. Paused. Threw a rainbow 30 feet left of the plate. They should have him in one of their after game "instructionals"
    And people are worried about putting Parmalee out there. Have they seen Doumit?

  14. #54
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    Dave, we didn't need 4 RBI, just one. Mauer's RISP is pretty, pretty good and average way better than Hammer. Yeah, he is probably sitting dead red on fastball, but he's supposed to be able to handle a slider over the plate. At least offer at it.
    RISP? Who the hell cares about that. What is the point of offering at a pitch in a 3-1 count (with Willingham! on deck) if you are sitting on a fastball the whole way? 3 things will typically happen.

    1. Swing and miss.
    2. Foul boul
    3. Poorly hit ball for an out.

    Of course there is a chance that he could have offered at it and gotten a hit, but Mauer didn't become one of the best hitters in the game by "offering" at 3-1 pitches. This is stuff you learn in any baseball above Little League. The pitcher made a great pitch, it is what it is.

    Willingham has a .950 OPS on the season, I will take my chances with him at the plate and bases loaded any day of the week.

  15. #55
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Yeah, that's how a catcher playing OF prepares for a tag....
    That was comical, though I don't think it matters much anyways, that ball was hit pretty deep I believe, and Saunders has decent wheels.

  16. #56
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    The Twins arn't trying very hard.

  17. #57
    Senior Member All-Star Bark's Lounge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top Gun View Post
    The Twins arn't trying very hard.
    In all due respect dear sir, it appears that you and the Minnesota Twins share the same trait. Cherio!

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    Dave, we didn't need 4 RBI, just one. Mauer's RISP is pretty, pretty good and average way better than Hammer. Yeah, he is probably sitting dead red on fastball, but he's supposed to be able to handle a slider over the plate. At least offer at it.
    RISP? Who the hell cares about that. What is the point of offering at a pitch in a 3-1 count (with Willingham! on deck) if you are sitting on a fastball the whole way? 3 things will typically happen.

    1. Swing and miss.
    2. Foul boul
    3. Poorly hit ball for an out.

    Of course there is a chance that he could have offered at it and gotten a hit, but Mauer didn't become one of the best hitters in the game by "offering" at 3-1 pitches. This is stuff you learn in any baseball above Little League. The pitcher made a great pitch, it is what it is.

    Willingham has a .950 OPS on the season, I will take my chances with him at the plate and bases loaded any day of the week.
    Joe Christensen (http://www.startribune.com/sports/tw...166676076.html), rarely critical of the Twins, but apparently crabby because of West Coast deadline issues, disagrees with your take. I'm in the middle, Mauer had 2 of 6 pitches close to worth swinging at during the AB but he wasn't having a good night at the plate and there likely isn't anyone in the game better at judging the strike zone, and there was no way that Luetge was going to give him anything fat. Let the controversy ensue:



    "I didnít have time to ask Mauer about his plate appearance, but Iím just going to say this: He has to have more urgency to swing the bat there. His otherworldly .414 on-base percentage is a big reason for whatever success the Twins have had offensively this year. But sometimes, a guy making $23 million per year needs to take it upon himself to take his shot.


    If the Twins had one at-bat to win a game, the Twins would take Mauer/Luetge over Willingham/Wilhelmsen any day. Never mind that Mauer has 60 RBI and Willingham has 89. This was a spot for a batting champ, and Mauer is batting .319 compared to Willinghamís .259.

    Mauer has to recognize this and take a rip at that 3-0 sinker. Maybe he figured heíd get another crack at 3-1, and Luetge threw a pretty good slider for strike two, but after another errant sinker, Mauer was bending down, unhooking his shin pad, waiting for someone else to do the heavy lifting."


    Last edited by jokin; 08-19-2012 at 02:45 AM.

  19. #59
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Surprising take from Joe C. He doesn't get that critical very often, this seems like a really odd choice to break the pattern.

    What Mauer did there struck me as pretty defensible. His plate discipline is what makes him the hitter he is. If the situation had been different, and it were a stone cold Plouffe due up next, then maybe I could see ripping Mauer. But it was our top run producer on deck.

    It's not like the time he tried to bunt with guys on base, which Laudner called "stupid" in the postgame.

  20. #60
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    For me it comes down to this: the game was tied. It wasn't like they needed Willingham to come up and hit a grand slam.

    Are you going to "man up" and take your best shot at giving your team a chance to win? Or are you going to pass the burden on to your teammate?

    I guess Mauer could argue that by walking he was giving the team its "best shot". Looking at the statistics of both players, I have to question that.

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