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Thread: Souhan/Ryan weigh in

  1. #21
    Senior Member All-Star Winston Smith's Avatar
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    "Last year he was able to land us Willingham, Doumit and Burton which were all great pick ups." The problem is that these guys just replaced guys that left, Cuddy, Kubel and Nathan. That ended up being about a wash no real gain, but saved a bunch of money and the Pohlads wisely used the savings to buy a few luxury car dealerships!

  2. #22
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Mr. Ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    At this point. Greinke cannot be considered an "elite" pitching free agent. The train has already gone off the rails there.

    Can they consider him Bargain Bin? Please?

  3. #23
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Ed View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    At this point. Greinke cannot be considered an "elite" pitching free agent. The train has already gone off the rails there.
    Can they consider him Bargain Bin? Please?
    One can only hope.

  4. #24
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    I should mot have read that article. Little this team does is how i would do it.

  5. #25
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    At this point. Greinke cannot be considered an "elite" pitching free agent. The train has already gone off the rails there.
    Well he will be the top FA on the market, and I would be shocked if he gets less than 95 mil.

  6. #26
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    "Last year he was able to land us Willingham, Doumit and Burton which were all great pick ups." The problem is that these guys just replaced guys that left, Cuddy, Kubel and Nathan. That ended up being about a wash no real gain, but saved a bunch of money and the Pohlads wisely used the savings to buy a few luxury car dealerships!
    Willingham 7 mil. Doumit 3 mil. Burton <1 mil.

    Those three combined were had for less than for what it would have taken to retained Cuddyer alone. Also they now have more payroll flexibility in 2013 and 2014 because of those deals.

  7. #27
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    "You've going to have to take some risks and you're going to have to look at all markets, not just free agency, but trades and waivers and Rule 5s."

    Yeah, because waivers and the Rule V draft is so risky. Or was he referring to his previous paragraph:

    Ryan isn't happy with the production of his lineup but recognizes that the organization's foremost need is starting pitching. That's why he would consider re-signing Baker or Pavano.

    Because resigning one of them on a 1 year $3-5 million dollar deal is such a risk.

    "Even when we had rotations that were darn good, we got them from about every avenue. We have to do the same thing moving forward here."

    Which of the "darn good" rotations had free agents in them? The time they gave Kenny Rogers a one year $2 million dollar deal?

  8. #28
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    At this point. Greinke cannot be considered an "elite" pitching free agent. The train has already gone off the rails there.
    Well he will be the top FA on the market, and I would be shocked if he gets less than 95 mil.
    I think that's a pretty fair assessment of where he'll land. Somewhere just north of Lackey money.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    Souhan gives us "thin" in double quotes, but then doesn't give us the quote by Ryan where he uses that term. Ugh. Maybe we can get the context that was used. I agree - last I looked the market was anything but thin.

    More interesting to me was the speculation about Ryan's future....

    "We have not played well," Ryan said. "And everything comes underneath my umbrella. So I'll go through the next month and we'll see exactly where we stand here, but sooner rather than later Mr. Pohlad has got to get a decision out of me. I know he can't go on forever with this setup."
    I asked Ryan a handful of questions designed to gauge his willingness to keep the job. He did not provide a definitive answer."
    But then Souhan suggests that Ryan is going to be around long term? Ryan's quotes make it sound like he views this as a project (to turn things around) rather than an ongoing job. All I can figure is that Ryan is playing his status close to the vest because he wants to negotiate with the Pohlads or just because he wants to defer to them and let them make the decision?
    You are the only one to touch on what I think is the biggest piece of the article. What's Ryan's commitment? He walked away from the job a couple years ago because he was burned out. I'm assuming he was talked out of retirement because Bill Smith was failing so miserably. But his title is "Interim". And according to this link, that's his decision - not the Pohlads. Is he all in? If not, there is less accountability IMO.

    http://aol.sportingnews.com/mlb/stor...ron-gardenhire

  10. #30
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    Keep in mind that the Twins didn't really want to keep Santana around. While most of that was cost, certainly some of it was fear of how a pitcher will age. Santana went to the Mets at 29 - most of the FA are older than that - and had one full season followed by four seasons disrupted by injuries. It's unrealistic to expect that the Twins are going to change their philosophy on big long term contracts now - esp since Morneau and Mauer both got hurt in their long term contracts. I don't think Ryan is going to offer more than a 3 yr deal for anyone.

    I suspect Ryan will try and find younger Diamond-type pitchers in smaller trades and trade Span for some players that none of us will be overly excited about. He'll also make some more 1 yr deals to guys like Pavano/Marquis. One name that could happen for us is Dan Haren. He's having an awful year in LA so he might take a one year make good deal again and Target Field could be a good fit for him (although if does do a 1yr deal, I think Oakland is a more realistic option).

  11. #31
    Senior Member All-Star Winston Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    "Last year he was able to land us Willingham, Doumit and Burton which were all great pick ups." The problem is that these guys just replaced guys that left, Cuddy, Kubel and Nathan. That ended up being about a wash no real gain, but saved a bunch of money and the Pohlads wisely used the savings to buy a few luxury car dealerships!
    Willingham 7 mil. Doumit 3 mil. Burton <1 mil.

    Those three combined were had for less than for what it would have taken to retained Cuddyer alone. Also they now have more payroll flexibility in 2013 and 2014 because of those deals.
    Did you read what I said or just react? "...but saved a bunch of money..."

  12. #32
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    "Last year he was able to land us Willingham, Doumit and Burton which were all great pick ups." The problem is that these guys just replaced guys that left, Cuddy, Kubel and Nathan. That ended up being about a wash no real gain, but saved a bunch of money and the Pohlads wisely used the savings to buy a few luxury car dealerships!


    Willingham 7 mil. Doumit 3 mil. Burton <1 mil.

    Those three combined were had for less than for what it would have taken to retained Cuddyer alone. Also they now have more payroll flexibility in 2013 and 2014 because of those deals.
    Did you read what I said or just react? "...but saved a bunch of money..."
    I read what you said. You claimed they took the "saved money" and bought car dealerships or whatever. I pointed out that by finding Willingham/Doumit/burton as cheap options, the Twins now have more payroll flexibility and less holes to fill in 2013 and 2014 then they would have if they just would have resigned Cuddyer or Cuddyer+1 other.

  13. #33
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    Let's hope they use that payroll flexibility and make the team substantially better.

  14. #34
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    CF Denard Span was a late scratch because of soreness in his collarbone. He was scheduled to have an MRI exam Wednesday morning. Span was injured Aug. 12 while trying to make a sliding catch on a soft liner. He missed nine games but had played in four of the Twins' previous five games before Tuesday. "I don't think anybody's all that concerned about it, but he's sore today," GM Terry Ryan said.
    (Yahoo! Sports)

  15. #35
    The biggest pitching risk for a salary strapped team would be signing Pavano who can't throw right now, and Scott Baker, who doesn't know when he will throw well again. $5-10-15 million better sp-end elsewhere. Ryan is givign himself and the manager and coaches another year...then heads will roll. Be interesting to see how the Mauer things turns out.
    Joel Thingvall
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  16. #36
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    Quote Originally Posted by LimestoneBaggy View Post
    I view much of this as smokescreen/not tipping my hand info. I've seen enough JR over the years to know his pension for dumpster squatting, but I really believe they are not satisfied with what we have to sign a Marcum/Jackson level pitcher (and likely take a long look at Baker's progress). I'll wait it out to get upset.
    I have recently said in another thread that I am very concerned that they will do nothing in the off season and I still feel that way. And, I must agree with the above. Didn't it come out right before Blackburn was pulled of the 40-man that he was, "one of our guys next year" ? That may have been said by Gardy but I think it comes from Ryan with a purpose. I am staying calm on this for the moment.

  17. #37
    Many of the board crucified me, a couple wks ago, when I predicted that MN WOULD attempt (at least) to re-sign Carl Pavano.
    This is how the organization runs....people have got to get used to it. They went bargain basement last yr & it worked out, for the most part. It was NOT free agent spending because of Target Field. MN/Terry Ryan will NEVER be free agent players, not because of money but because they dont believe in giving out the length of contract that you need to be a player.
    Get used to the same next year. Its nobody's fault in the organization, Ryan says it, cause they do everything correctly. Its the players fault.....grrrr

  18. #38
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    Relax, people. This is the dramatic Jim Souhan we're dealing with, and who likes to stir it up more than him?

    If you're a proponent of a housecleaning, you're going to be unsatisfied with any interview you read involving the Twins' ownership and staff.

    Elite? Be careful what you wish for. It's a good thing none of us has a vote, because we would probably be guilty of labelling guys like Meche and Silva as "elite" in a thin market. Ryan won't do that, thank God.

    I didn't hear Ryan say he considered either Pavano or Baker as the solution. Jim Souhan left you with that impression, not Ryan.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    One name that could happen for us is Dan Haren. He's having an awful year in LA so he might take a one year make good deal again and Target Field could be a good fit for him (although if does do a 1yr deal, I think Oakland is a more realistic option).
    I too like the idea of Haren. He may or may not take a 1 year deal, but he still has an option year left which is out of his hands. The Angels may pick it up and keep him if they can't re-sign Greinke, but they also may pick it up with the idea of trading him. If a team like the Twins picks up most of that salary, they might not have to give up too much.

  20. #40
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
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    As some here have begun to point out, it's important to realize two things about this interview: What the intended purpose is and who the audience is.

    There's also a difference between telling the truth and the whole truth, which is evident in places where Ryan puts on his GM/marketing hat rather than exhaustive truth teller.

    Concerning non-player persons (coaches, front office), I think he's being completely honest and forthright.
    Concerning players, I think he trying to talk up signed players and maintain bridges with possible targets. -- This is 'not the whole truth part' but necessary in order to not show your hole card (true intentions that would kill any leverage)

    In order of importances, I'd say Ryan's audience (with purpose in parentheses) was 1) current players and staff (letting them know he values them and has their back -- hopefully relieving stress and pressure to perform which may be a hindrance to performance) 2) Other GMs (indicating that the team will not be dumping salary/players but will require value players in any trade) 3) Twins fans (who are desperate to know what the heck the plan is, if there is a plan et cetera).

    I also believe that the "thin" comment was about elite pitching only. It's not a surprise to me that they won't be signing anyone longer than 4-5 years, and at no more than ~13M/year. Even if 80M were coming off the books, the Twins just don't see those contracts as good investments and while I, like most of you, see the need for elite pitching, I don't believe these contracts are especially beneficial unless you were one pitcher away from a championship.
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

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