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Thread: Souhan/Ryan weigh in

  1. #41
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    As some here have begun to point out, it's important to realize two things about this interview: What the intended purpose is and who the audience is.

    There's also a difference between telling the truth and the whole truth, which is evident in places where Ryan puts on his GM/marketing hat rather than exhaustive truth teller.

    Concerning non-player persons (coaches, front office), I think he's being completely honest and forthright.
    Concerning players, I think he trying to talk up signed players and maintain bridges with possible targets. -- This is 'not the whole truth part' but necessary in order to not show your hole card (true intentions that would kill any leverage)

    In order of importances, I'd say Ryan's audience (with purpose in parentheses) was 1) current players and staff (letting them know he values them and has their back -- hopefully relieving stress and pressure to perform which may be a hindrance to performance) 2) Other GMs (indicating that the team will not be dumping salary/players but will require value players in any trade) 3) Twins fans (who are desperate to know what the heck the plan is, if there is a plan et cetera).

    I also believe that the "thin" comment was about elite pitching only. It's not a surprise to me that they won't be signing anyone longer than 4-5 years, and at no more than ~13M/year. Even if 80M were coming off the books, the Twins just don't see those contracts as good investments and while I, like most of you, see the need for elite pitching, I don't believe these contracts are especially beneficial unless you were one pitcher away from a championship.
    Well said... You are on my smart poster list.

    I agree with your last comment on the elite pitching contracts... However in the context of the current Twins... I think they have no choice but to go after one of them. Haren or Shields. The Twins have to take a big run... Overpay for one of them. And then pray for health and success. I'd overpay for one and build a church at the same time.

  2. #42
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    As some here have begun to point out, it's important to realize two things about this interview: What the intended purpose is and who the audience is.

    There's also a difference between telling the truth and the whole truth, which is evident in places where Ryan puts on his GM/marketing hat rather than exhaustive truth teller.

    Concerning non-player persons (coaches, front office), I think he's being completely honest and forthright.
    Concerning players, I think he trying to talk up signed players and maintain bridges with possible targets. -- This is 'not the whole truth part' but necessary in order to not show your hole card (true intentions that would kill any leverage)

    In order of importances, I'd say Ryan's audience (with purpose in parentheses) was 1) current players and staff (letting them know he values them and has their back -- hopefully relieving stress and pressure to perform which may be a hindrance to performance) 2) Other GMs (indicating that the team will not be dumping salary/players but will require value players in any trade) 3) Twins fans (who are desperate to know what the heck the plan is, if there is a plan et cetera).

    I also believe that the "thin" comment was about elite pitching only. It's not a surprise to me that they won't be signing anyone longer than 4-5 years, and at no more than ~13M/year. Even if 80M were coming off the books, the Twins just don't see those contracts as good investments and while I, like most of you, see the need for elite pitching, I don't believe these contracts are especially beneficial unless you were one pitcher away from a championship.
    Well said... You are on my smart poster list.

    I agree with your last comment on the elite pitching contracts... However in the context of the current Twins... I think they have no choice but to go after one of them. Haren or Shields. The Twins have to take a big run... Overpay for one of them. And then pray for health and success. I'd overpay for one and build a church at the same time.
    I think they sign two FA SPs, two second tier guys. I also think they deny option/sign Baker. A total of ~20M on the three, perhaps Baker for 3M, the better FA at 10M, and the other FA at 7M/next year.

    My starting 5 look like this:
    1) FA
    2) FA
    3) Diamond
    4) Hendriks
    5) Deduno/DeVries/Walters/Manship

    With Baker and Gibson arriving after demonstrating consistent success at AAA -- it may not happen for either.... gulp.
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    You all realize that everything Ryan says needs to be taken with a grain of salt? GM doublespeak abound.

  4. #44
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    GM doublespeak may abound but I will be absolutely shocked if Terry Ryan spends more than $15 million on FA starting pitching and I sincerely doubt that he'll spend that much. I think that Ultimate Ratio may be right about Baker in the $3 million range. Then another in the $8-$10 million range.

    More than that? Highly unlikely. I honestly don't think that he is being deceptive on this point. I think he has been pretty honest and pretty consistent about his stance on FA pitching. Keep your expectations pretty darn reasonable.

  5. #45
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    Bull, that's why I don't like him and no one will trade with him, The whole F.O, is a bunch of crooks.

  6. #46
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    As some here have begun to point out, it's important to realize two things about this interview: What the intended purpose is and who the audience is.

    There's also a difference between telling the truth and the whole truth, which is evident in places where Ryan puts on his GM/marketing hat rather than exhaustive truth teller.

    Concerning non-player persons (coaches, front office), I think he's being completely honest and forthright.
    Concerning players, I think he trying to talk up signed players and maintain bridges with possible targets. -- This is 'not the whole truth part' but necessary in order to not show your hole card (true intentions that would kill any leverage)

    In order of importances, I'd say Ryan's audience (with purpose in parentheses) was 1) current players and staff (letting them know he values them and has their back -- hopefully relieving stress and pressure to perform which may be a hindrance to performance) 2) Other GMs (indicating that the team will not be dumping salary/players but will require value players in any trade) 3) Twins fans (who are desperate to know what the heck the plan is, if there is a plan et cetera).

    I also believe that the "thin" comment was about elite pitching only. It's not a surprise to me that they won't be signing anyone longer than 4-5 years, and at no more than ~13M/year. Even if 80M were coming off the books, the Twins just don't see those contracts as good investments and while I, like most of you, see the need for elite pitching, I don't believe these contracts are especially beneficial unless you were one pitcher away from a championship.
    Well said... You are on my smart poster list.

    I agree with your last comment on the elite pitching contracts... However in the context of the current Twins... I think they have no choice but to go after one of them. Haren or Shields. The Twins have to take a big run... Overpay for one of them. And then pray for health and success. I'd overpay for one and build a church at the same time.
    I think they sign two FA SPs, two second tier guys. I also think they deny option/sign Baker. A total of ~20M on the three, perhaps Baker for 3M, the better FA at 10M, and the other FA at 7M/next year.

    My starting 5 look like this:
    1) FA
    2) FA
    3) Diamond
    4) Hendriks
    5) Deduno/DeVries/Walters/Manship

    With Baker and Gibson arriving after demonstrating consistent success at AAA -- it may not happen for either.... gulp.
    I'd be happy with:

    1. Haren or Shields
    2. Diamond
    3. Traded for young pitcher with upside (this one will be harder and it doesn't matter who).
    4. Hendriks/Deduno/Walters
    5. Rule 5 pickup

    6. At least two Decent Improved options in AAA or AA. Hopefully another young arm dealt for and Minor League Free Agent.


    On the interview itself... Fire Dan Gladden, Birdwatcher, Ultima are correct. It would be absolutely stupid of Terry Ryan to sit down with a reporter and say... We are going to replace Gardenhire at the end of the year... Morneau is gone... I'm telling you now so get ready for it. This organization is trouble and I blame everybody else but me.

    If you are ever interviewed and you provide answers like that... You will be paying for it in ways you would have never imagined. You will paying for it dealing with the aftermath and that will involve people that actually matter.

    It's also arguable that granting an interview to the press at all is a fairly stupid move because anything said... Truthful, Bent, Safe or Dangerous will be torn apart like it's Bambi captured by a pack of Hyena's and Buzzards. Look no furthur than this thread for proof of that.
    Last edited by Riverbrian; 08-29-2012 at 03:25 PM.

  7. #47
    Super Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    hopefully relieving stress and pressure to perform which may be a hindrance to performance)
    No quarrel with the jist of your message. But this kind of statement always bothers me; do we look forward to sending a roster of such guys into Yankee Stadium for Game 1 of a playoff series?

  8. #48
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    hopefully relieving stress and pressure to perform which may be a hindrance to performance)
    No quarrel with the jist of your message. But this kind of statement always bothers me; do we look forward to sending a roster of such guys into Yankee Stadium for Game 1 of a playoff series?
    Let's hope they learn to play loose and with confidence at all times. Easier said than done. Let's start with this and worry about step 97 (going into Yankees stadium) afterwards.
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

  9. #49
    Super Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    hopefully relieving stress and pressure to perform which may be a hindrance to performance)
    No quarrel with the jist of your message. But this kind of statement always bothers me; do we look forward to sending a roster of such guys into Yankee Stadium for Game 1 of a playoff series?
    Let's hope they learn to play loose and with confidence at all times. Easier said than done. Let's start with this and worry about step 97 (going into Yankees stadium) afterwards.
    Let's don't, to the last part. I'm not saying Ryan and Gardenhire should make asses of themselves with the players. But if professional players need their GM to say soothing things publicly, in order that their performance not be hindered, something is wrong. This ought to be 0% of Terry Ryan's focus in talking to the press.

  10. #50
    Super Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post

    It's also arguable that granting an interview to the press at all is a fairly stupid move because anything said... Truthful, Bent, Safe or Dangerous will be torn apart like it's Bambi captured by a pack of Hyena's and Buzzards. Look no furthur than this thread for proof of that.
    Terry Ryan shouldn't grant interviews?

    Terry Ryan is the GM of a MLB team. Part of his job is PR, which involves responding to the press, which is one way you generate interest in your product, which is part of how you sell tickets.

    Ignoring your customers is rarely a good business strategy.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post

    It's also arguable that granting an interview to the press at all is a fairly stupid move because anything said... Truthful, Bent, Safe or Dangerous will be torn apart like it's Bambi captured by a pack of Hyena's and Buzzards. Look no furthur than this thread for proof of that.
    Terry Ryan shouldn't grant interviews?

    Terry Ryan is the GM of a MLB team. Part of his job is PR, which involves responding to the press, which is one way you generate interest in your product, which is part of how you sell tickets.

    Ignoring your customers is rarely a good business strategy.
    Agree with USAFChief, PR is part of the job.
    Lighten up Francis....

  12. #52
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    I don't think the Twins should just go out and sell Morneau, pay him, hope he hits next year well. Would get more value next year at the deadline anyways.

    I'm not opposed to incentive deals for a Pavano or a Baker, but if they sign them for too much, are not 100% and struggle I don't want Ryan to pull his I made the moves bs that I've heard before.

    The Twins need to make some coaching changes, I don't care. but somethings need to go.

    The Twins need to re-evaluate someone or thing within their medical staff. This Span situation is a joke, they handled Plouffe poorly and Pavano pretty bad as well. And they made many similar moves in similar situations last year.

    I do think the Twins need to trade Span and I'd look at trading Willingham if the right offer came around. I was opposed to it, but if you look at the Twins farm system the one area where there is talent is in the OF. IF and its a big IF Parmellee can go out and play RF respectively you can move Revere over to center. Mastronni can play out there, but Hicks looks to be ready or at least close, Arcia, is in AA, Benson who did struggle this year but if you look at his minor league history when healthy he played well, and when not he didn't, so it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for him to have a solid year next year and be ready for the majors. 2 other top 10 prospects are minor leaguers as well in Rosario and Morales.

    So you could trade those two for pitchers, and I don't think too much would drop off.

  13. #53
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post

    It's also arguable that granting an interview to the press at all is a fairly stupid move because anything said... Truthful, Bent, Safe or Dangerous will be torn apart like it's Bambi captured by a pack of Hyena's and Buzzards. Look no furthur than this thread for proof of that.
    Terry Ryan shouldn't grant interviews?

    Terry Ryan is the GM of a MLB team. Part of his job is PR, which involves responding to the press, which is one way you generate interest in your product, which is part of how you sell tickets.

    Ignoring your customers is rarely a good business strategy.
    I know... Just hoping some can see why they get a bunch of worthless **** as quotes.

    Kevin Smith is the PR director I believe and he has to make sure that people don't say anything stupid. Rookies are trained and the vets like Ryan and Gardy are experienced at the process. They are not going to slip up. We are not going to know what is happening with Morneau and Span and the future because if he says whats on his mind. He's got a bunch people in his office the next morning.

    Terry Ryan, Gardy, Coaches, the players make themselves available for interviews. They need to be somewhat accessable... They know what they can say and what they can't say and they can't tell you what they are completely thinking because they will get ripped apart. Fans upset is one thing but you can't make waves in your own walls.

    Terry Ryan provided the safe answers that are as predictable as possible and he still got ripped apart.

    Saying PR is part of his job is correct. It is... Just like cleaning up puke in the bathroom is part of the job of a bartender.

    Its too late now... Just want to point out that we get **** for quotes that you cant trust because we can't handle the truth.

  14. #54
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Ownership will not be happy with this interview
    I am sure the moment this hit the newspaper stands twins lost about 100 Season Ticket Holders.
    - But it seems they don't care as they already got their money from the Hennepin County Tax Payer.

    What a nightmare.

  15. #55
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    I've always loved the fact that the Twins' brass can come out and say the things that they have proven, time and again, to be completely in line with their philosophy, and people are still willing to believe that it is misdirection and duplicity.

    If Terry Ryan gave an interview stating that the Twins were considering drafting a low-ceiling control pitcher or a toolsy outfielder, we'd still have folks trying to convince everyone that he's trying to throw other front offices off the scent.

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