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Thread: 2012 Election Thread

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeer View Post
    Vote yes on voter ID, the fact that under the current rules certain people don't have ID's has nothing to do with what would happen if we changed the rule to something reasonable. I have full confidence the 86 year old who has no reason to have an ID would be willing to take 15 minutes out of there day and go register to vote the in a legal manor. The 36 year old that is irresponsible might choose not to get an ID, and thats Ok they have the right to choose not to vote. As for throwing your vote away, you only do that if you let someone else control who you vote for. The election will not come down to 1 vote so all you can do is send a message with your vote. A vote for Rosanne Barr or Gary Johnson sends some sort of a message as does a vote for Obama and Romney. I should add though that an old college professor gave an economic lesson that no matter how close an election is voting is a waste of time. He ran for office 2 years ago and got exactly a half vote more then 50%.
    There's a lot wrong with the voter ID plan but on a simple level, why should 200,000+ people have to go to the government to get back their fundamental right?
    Same reason I can't vote in my living room. If you want to vote you need to take some responsibility. If a convicted felon votes for Obama my legal vote for Romney is rendered meaningless and thats BS.

  2. #22
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    I would suggest if your moving prior to the election that instead of pretending a law that doesn't exist will skrew you over (also known as the left is willing to tell any lie prior to an election) you take a little responsibility to do what the law requires you to do to legally cast a vote. Or choose not to vote.

  3. #23
    Senior Member All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeer View Post
    Vote yes on voter ID, the fact that under the current rules certain people don't have ID's has nothing to do with what would happen if we changed the rule to something reasonable. I have full confidence the 86 year old who has no reason to have an ID would be willing to take 15 minutes out of there day and go register to vote the in a legal manor. The 36 year old that is irresponsible might choose not to get an ID, and thats Ok they have the right to choose not to vote. As for throwing your vote away, you only do that if you let someone else control who you vote for. The election will not come down to 1 vote so all you can do is send a message with your vote. A vote for Rosanne Barr or Gary Johnson sends some sort of a message as does a vote for Obama and Romney. I should add though that an old college professor gave an economic lesson that no matter how close an election is voting is a waste of time. He ran for office 2 years ago and got exactly a half vote more then 50%.
    There's a lot wrong with the voter ID plan but on a simple level, why should 200,000+ people have to go to the government to get back their fundamental right?
    Same reason I can't vote in my living room. If you want to vote you need to take some responsibility. If a convicted felon votes for Obama my legal vote for Romney is rendered meaningless and thats BS.
    Voting would be so much more worth while if we had an obstacle court prior to casting our choice.

    We live in a Democracy, bub. Even the lazy and derelict have a right to be represented without needing some extra test of responsibility.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeer View Post
    Same reason I can't vote in my living room. If you want to vote you need to take some responsibility. If a convicted felon votes for Obama my legal vote for Romney is rendered meaningless and thats BS.
    Voter ID won't have any impact on felon voting. (I think we had something like 200 felon votes out of over 2.9m votes cast in MN so clearly we must create a new law that disenfranchises 200,000 MN and costs tax payers millions of dollars and does nothing to solve that tiny problem).

    You can vote from your living room with an absentee ballot, although that will also be changed dramatically under voter ID.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeer View Post
    Vote yes on voter ID, the fact that under the current rules certain people don't have ID's has nothing to do with what would happen if we changed the rule to something reasonable. I have full confidence the 86 year old who has no reason to have an ID would be willing to take 15 minutes out of there day and go register to vote the in a legal manor. The 36 year old that is irresponsible might choose not to get an ID, and thats Ok they have the right to choose not to vote. As for throwing your vote away, you only do that if you let someone else control who you vote for. The election will not come down to 1 vote so all you can do is send a message with your vote. A vote for Rosanne Barr or Gary Johnson sends some sort of a message as does a vote for Obama and Romney. I should add though that an old college professor gave an economic lesson that no matter how close an election is voting is a waste of time. He ran for office 2 years ago and got exactly a half vote more then 50%.
    There's a lot wrong with the voter ID plan but on a simple level, why should 200,000+ people have to go to the government to get back their fundamental right?
    Same reason I can't vote in my living room. If you want to vote you need to take some responsibility. If a convicted felon votes for Obama my legal vote for Romney is rendered meaningless and thats BS.
    Voting would be so much more worth while if we had an obstacle court prior to casting our choice.

    We live in a Democracy, bub. Even the lazy and derelict have a right to be represented without needing some extra test of responsibility.
    The other solution is death penalty for election fraud.

  6. #26
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    [QUOTE=gunnarthor;52684]
    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeer View Post


    You can vote from your living room with an absentee ballot, although that will also be changed dramatically under voter ID.
    Didn't get my absentee ballot in the mail yet. It would be racist and unfair if I had to do something to get one.

  7. #27
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    [QUOTE=fatbeer;52718]
    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeer View Post


    You can vote from your living room with an absentee ballot, although that will also be changed dramatically under voter ID.
    Didn't get my absentee ballot in the mail yet. It would be racist and unfair if I had to do something to get one.
    Wow, that's just sad.

  8. #28
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    So this thread got derailed in typical fashion.

    I don't pay attention to much news here in Taiwan but I'm reading/seeing a few things that indicate that Romney has a chance to win. How the hell can this be true? he's an absolutely awful candidate even if you compare him to Obama. I would happy if Obama was not the president of the US but I can't honestly see how anyone is going to vote Romney other than those that just check all of the republican boxes. I have become completely disillusioned with the transformation of the Republican party over the last 20 years. They are completely irresponsible fiscally (even compared to Democrats) and I hate the power that the christian right has over the party.

    If I bothered to get an absentee ballot this might be the first year that voted for a democrat for president.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kab21 View Post
    So this thread got derailed in typical fashion.

    I don't pay attention to much news here in Taiwan but I'm reading/seeing a few things that indicate that Romney has a chance to win. How the hell can this be true? he's an absolutely awful candidate even if you compare him to Obama. I would happy if Obama was not the president of the US but I can't honestly see how anyone is going to vote Romney other than those that just check all of the republican boxes. I have become completely disillusioned with the transformation of the Republican party over the last 20 years. They are completely irresponsible fiscally (even compared to Democrats) and I hate the power that the christian right has over the party.

    If I bothered to get an absentee ballot this might be the first year that voted for a democrat for president.
    Of course it got derailed. It's a political thread.

    You should still try and vote (or is it too late to get an absentee ballot), even if it's for a 'lesser of two evils.' Or write in someone. Or find another candidate. Exercise your right to vote even if it's a vote in protest. When there are voter suppression laws being passed all over the country, mostly by one party to suppress voters from another party, it's even more important that you vote because you can, even if disillusioned. Just my opinion.

    Also ... consider the possible appointments you'd want made to the courts and who you'd want to make them. That's where my thinking tends to lie these days. For me, I do not want anyone on the court who cannot separate their religious ideals from the laws of the court.

  10. #30
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    Nice rant on voting but i really don't care enough to go thru the overseas absentee hassle. I haven't lived in MN (where I'm registered) in 15 yrs so I don't care much about the local elections and I'm not planning on going back to the US any time soon.

  11. #31
    Head Moderator All-Star glunn's Avatar
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    The amount of voter fraud in the U.S. is negligible. This is part of a nationwide effort to trim the rolls of Democratic voters.

    As for felons voting, I think that the more significant issue is why does the "greatest" country in the world also have the greatest number of felons, and why are so many of the felons people of color. And someone please explain how the war on drugs is working.

    Also, because of the outdated electoral college, my vote won't count. I live in California, which will go for Obama no mater what. Indeed, the vast majority of Americans don't live in "swing states", so our votes for president don't have any impact. We are effectively disenfranchised.

    The only good news from my perspective is that a Republican administration is going to save me a ton of income taxes. But I will be saddened by the upcoming rape of the poor and the middle class, with the exception of those stupid enough to vote for Romney. I have been giving most of my tax savings from the Bush tax cuts to feed poor children and families, but wish that there was some charity that served only the needy people who are smart enough to vote for their own self interest.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
    The amount of voter fraud in the U.S. is negligible.
    Seems to me this could only be proven if we had a voter ID law. Why is it Democrats assume people that vote for their candidates are stupid lazy and irresponsible?

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
    The amount of voter fraud in the U.S. is negligible.
    Seems to me this could only be proven if we had a voter ID law.
    Since when did it become the policy of small government advocates to pass laws and THEN determine whether there was a problem that needed to be fixed?

  14. #34
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    This country had several hundred years of no voter ID voting. The reason that voting impersonation doesn't happen is because the risk far outways the payoff. One additional vote for Romney isn't going to mean anything in a state where nearly 3m people vote. But a person who registers himself under another name faces a felony. The better way to improve Romney's turnout is to disenfranchise groups that typically vote Democratic.

    Democrats don't assume their supporters are lazy or irresponsible. What Democrats oppose is the idea that 200,000 people will automatically lose their right to vote and have to go to the government to regain that right. In fact, democratic voters are usually better informed on the issues. That's why, when conservatives hear about these sort of issues, they respond with insults and refuse to learn about the issue. Hence we have conservatives who think Obama was born in Kenya, that Saddam was connected to 9/11, that voter fraud exists. All of those things were pretty accurately reported but conservatives refused to believe it. Any report to the contrary - despite valid confirmation - was part of some strange liberal conspiracy.

  15. #35
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    Voter ID is just another example of the republican party putting its energy into a trivial issue. there are actual important things that they should be thinking about but instead their campaign completely lacks focus.

  16. #36
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    Good thing we started a new thread!

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiTownTwinsFan View Post
    I've often considered my vote as one of the lesser of two evils. It seems that if you want to vote for the person most 'for' the things you want you are just giving a vote to one you least want. The pitfalls of a two-party system. So I end up voting for the person who is most likely going to beat the one I find most reprehensible.

    and in the end, you get nothing but an evil candidate. Since your vote won't change anything anyways, why not spend it on someone you actually like?

  18. #38
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    About voter ID. I'll say what I said (and what was ignored) in the last thread. If people actually cared about vote fraud, this is not what people would be discussing. They would be discussing how electronic voting has been implemented in this country, and how there is very little accountability to the election process that now uses it in most states. Forget someone showing up and casting 1 or 2 illegal votes.

    this flaw can allow one or two people to cast thousands of votes.

  19. #39
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    I really don't know how to read the bruhaha over the embassy attacks yesterday. It looks like Romney may have jumped the gun in his criticism of Obama (Real Clear Politics article penned by former McCain aid), but I doubt it will really damage him. The ethics of what to criticize and what not to as a candidate seem unfairly grey to me.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    About voter ID. I'll say what I said (and what was ignored) in the last thread. If people actually cared about vote fraud, this is not what people would be discussing. They would be discussing how electronic voting has been implemented in this country, and how there is very little accountability to the election process that now uses it in most states. Forget someone showing up and casting 1 or 2 illegal votes.

    this flaw can allow one or two people to cast thousands of votes.
    I remember there was a lot of talk in left-wing circles about the manufacture of voting machines being linked to Republican backers after Gore v. Bush, but it seemed a bit tin-foil hat...though oddly viable at the time.

    Exit polls, in part, due check in wide spread voter fraud on the other hand.

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