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Thread: 2012 Election Thread

  1. #81
    Twins Moderator All-Star ChiTownTwinsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    If the criticism leads to action and improvement I am all for it. There is no action.
    Quite frankly, it's hard for we libertarians to get much traction when we're being morally demonized by both sides.
    You are a Libertarian??? wow ... I am truly shocked. The way you argue I had you pegged as a died in the wool, to the core, Republican. Not trying to offend here, if you are offended, I am just really shocked at this revelation.

  2. #82
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiTownTwinsFan View Post
    You are a Libertarian??? wow ... I am truly shocked. The way you argue I had you pegged as a died in the wool, to the core, Republican. Not trying to offend here, if you are offended, I am just really shocked at this revelation.
    Then you're listening to what is being said in response and not what is actually being said. I'm not defending Romney - I'm disagreeing with the scope of the interpretation.

  3. #83
    Twins Moderator All-Star ChiTownTwinsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChiTownTwinsFan View Post
    You are a Libertarian??? wow ... I am truly shocked. The way you argue I had you pegged as a died in the wool, to the core, Republican. Not trying to offend here, if you are offended, I am just really shocked at this revelation.
    Then you're listening to what is being said in response and not what is actually being said. I'm not defending Romney - I'm disagreeing with the scope of the interpretation.
    It's not this thread ... it's every political thread back to BYTO.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    The last statement is my problem with the libertarian and conservative people. I start to view government more as an entity that attempts to correct problems. The genesis of legislation is to correct a societal problem. If you get rid of the legislation does the problem go away? Look back on history for that answer.
    I think you're simplifying the Libertarian viewpoint quite a bit. Some of us aren't against legislation entirely (though we are against stupid legislation and/or legislation that doesn't work). My Libertarianism comes from the core belief that the government is not a good service provider. In most cases, competition breeds efficiency and there is no competing force against the government. The government's role is to legislate private industry and prevent them from strong-arming the population into submission, not to avoid legislating entirely.

    Of course, there are Libertarians who call for much more radical government reform/de-legislation than myself, though after the financial debacle of 2007/2008, I do not understand how they reconcile those beliefs with reality.
    Libertarianism as expressed by the party and Ron Paul is what I don't get. I get wanting less government. Working in health care (the moniker isn't a joke) the efficiency in private health insurance is called non coverage and fighting tooth and nail for benefits.

    Efficiency in government. Separate agencies for food, WIC, housing and general handouts. Doesn't make sense for four eligibility organizations. Two for seniors (medicare and the VA). I am all for lifetime limits on benefits. I am also for only giving out staples for food.
    Last edited by old nurse; 09-20-2012 at 12:12 AM.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    If the criticism leads to action and improvement I am all for it. There is no action.
    Quite frankly, it's hard for we libertarians to get much traction when we're being morally demonized by both sides.
    Instead of action I should have said proposals for solutions to problems. Best way to solve things is to look at it from many different angles. Of course that requires politicians to work together and compromise.

  6. #86
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    A key problem is that we are all so centered on the federal government and these national elections instead of focusing on local elections and local initiatives/movements that are always bound to be a more efficient use of resources. People are terribly disengaged from the world and that is the problem. I would move way more towards the libertarian point of view if we saw a big effort of participation by people in local government. But that doesn't happen.

    It's a shame because need for federal government diminishes with increased local participation in government (school board up).

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    A key problem is that we are all so centered on the federal government and these national elections instead of focusing on local elections and local initiatives/movements that are always bound to be a more efficient use of resources. People are terribly disengaged from the world and that is the problem. I would move way more towards the libertarian point of view if we saw a big effort of participation by people in local government. But that doesn't happen.

    It's a shame because need for federal government diminishes with increased local participation in government (school board up).
    Professor you provoked a very strange thought. I do not know how i got it from your comment but it is a bit twisted. (Please feel free to use your education to improve the thought if you follow it)

    The world would be a better place if we were all cognizant of the impact of our actions on others and acted accordingly. Charitably our time, talents, and excess is a second trait that would be beneficial. Given those two traits in the general population we would all be libertarians.

  8. #88
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    A key problem is that we are all so centered on the federal government and these national elections instead of focusing on local elections and local initiatives/movements that are always bound to be a more efficient use of resources. People are terribly disengaged from the world and that is the problem. I would move way more towards the libertarian point of view if we saw a big effort of participation by people in local government. But that doesn't happen.

    It's a shame because need for federal government diminishes with increased local participation in government (school board up).
    ...and this is where I laugh at the accusations of Obama having any control over the Medicaid/Medicare moneys skewing. States decide how Medicaid is distributed and have a large say in how Medicare money is distributed within the state. States that have poor oversight are the states that see a high amount of fraud. I can tell you that South Dakota recently moved all Medicaid/Medicare receiving departments under one department head, and it has allowed for better budgeting of all funds needed by each area. It has also allowed South Dakota to claim more funds by having a better totality indicator of need than each individual department reporting.
    Staff Writer for Tomahawktake.com, come check it out!

  9. #89
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiTownTwinsFan View Post
    It's not this thread ... it's every political thread back to BYTO.
    Hard to be a Republican when you support pro-choice leg., anti-education privitization, pro-gay marriage, pro some tax increases, etc.

    Hell, I'm probably more liberal in my actual views - I just can't stand the phony, obnoxious, shallow thought behind most liberal policy.

  10. #90
    Head Moderator MVP glunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggentleben View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    A key problem is that we are all so centered on the federal government and these national elections instead of focusing on local elections and local initiatives/movements that are always bound to be a more efficient use of resources. People are terribly disengaged from the world and that is the problem. I would move way more towards the libertarian point of view if we saw a big effort of participation by people in local government. But that doesn't happen.

    It's a shame because need for federal government diminishes with increased local participation in government (school board up).
    ...and this is where I laugh at the accusations of Obama having any control over the Medicaid/Medicare moneys skewing. States decide how Medicaid is distributed and have a large say in how Medicare money is distributed within the state. States that have poor oversight are the states that see a high amount of fraud. I can tell you that South Dakota recently moved all Medicaid/Medicare receiving departments under one department head, and it has allowed for better budgeting of all funds needed by each area. It has also allowed South Dakota to claim more funds by having a better totality indicator of need than each individual department reporting.
    I would like to empty our prisons of drug offenders and try to fill them with people who have scammed the government and internet scammers.

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