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Thread: Rick Stelmaszek fired

  1. #41
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    I don't have a problem with Jake Mauer at AAA, though I think he is better in Florida.

    Other then Liddle at 3B I didn't think the other coaches were doing too bad of a job. I'm guessing that this points to a better get better or its your @$$ next year for Gardy. You don't fire 3-4 coaches and get much slack.

  2. #42
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    I don't know what it points to but it does seem to me that we're still seeing a refusal to bring in talent from outside the organization. I'm waiting to see if the front office also remains stagnant. While Cuellar, Brunansky and Glynn may have deserved promotions, is that the best thing for Rochester -- or more importantly, for the big league club if they need to be developing young players? I asked that once earlier this season -- how should we be looking at where certain coaches do the most good?

    Nothing that has happened today gives me any cause for celebration or any true indication that things are much different. I'll be interested to see how this all plays out but so far it is looking like "appeasement" and not much more.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer J-Dog Dungan's Avatar
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    Yeah, for those who were saying that this isn't a major shakeup is just kinda wrong. LVEN3's updated post states that Rick McWane, Rick Stelmaszek, Steve Liddle, and Jerry White have been let go, and Vavra and Ullger will be overseeing infield and outfield instruction, respectively.

  4. #44
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    And they leave in place Gardenhire and Anderson.

    I do not see how you can change everything except those 2 and leave them in place. That is insane.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Triple-A Dilligaf69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    And they leave in place Gardenhire and Anderson.

    I do not see how you can change everything except those 2 and leave them in place. That is insane.
    Gardy has only one more yr left so it's make or break for him next yr....again not that big a deal. The Twins don't have the talent up and down the roster especially the starting rotation.

  6. #46
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    For those of you who proclaim this as a big shake-up in the Twins coaching staff, I'd like to point out that it may be a shake-up (although how big is questionable) but it certainly isn't an overhaul.

    If you had been asked at the beginning of the day, "who are the 4 primary (or top) coaches in the Twins major league organizaton"? What would you have responded?

    I know that my own response (and I would guess a lot of people's response) would have been Ron Gardenhire, Rick Anderson, Joe Vavra and Scott Ullger.

    Well guess what? All 4 of them still have jobs with the major league club. (That could still change but at least from Bollinger's article on mlb.com, it looks like the firings are over). Yes, Vavra and Ullger were reassigned -- but again, WITH the major league club to something called infield and outfield instructors.

    Who was not retained? 64 year old bullpen coach Rick Stelmazek, 60 year old 1st base coach Jerry White and Steve Liddle (who had apparently had the good sense prior to this to say he was going to retire).

    Yes, Head Trainer Rick McWane was also fired but that is a front office position that should be discussed seperately.

    Before today, when you thought about the Twins' difficulties of the last 2 years, would you have said: "Well, Liddle, Stelly and White are the problems?"

    Of course not.

    They may only be on 1 year contracts now but Gardenhire, Anderson, Vavra and Ullger have still not taken any responsiblity for the debacle of the last 2 years.

    And for that matter, as long as McWane is the only person in the front office who loses his job, the front offices hasn't done so either.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    And for that matter, as long as McWane is the only person in the front office who loses his job, the front offices hasn't done so either.
    You do realize the general manager was fired less than a year ago right?
    Papers...business papers.

  8. #48
    Senior Member All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    LEN3 says Ulger is out too.http://www.startribune.com/sports/tw...172663381.html

    Bullpen coach Rick Stelmaszek, third base coach Steve Liddle, first base coach Jerry White and head trainer Rick McWane have been let go, while hitting coach Joe Vavra and bench coach Scott Ullger will oversee infield and outfield instruction, respectively.

  9. #49
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    I'm not sure how I feel about this "shake up". I would rather have either kept the entire crew together for one more win-or-else year or completely cleaned house and started fresh. But this seems like a lame half-measure where they're throwing a few guys under the bus just so they can say they did something.

    The other thing is I keep reading about how this paves the way for guys to be brought from Rochester. Do we have to fill every opening by promoting from within? Things have gone stale in this organization, it's a situation that begs for an infusion of new ideas from someone from the outside. Instead we're going to move people up just because it's their turn. Great.

    And if Gardy and Andy go next year, I'm sure they'll be replaced from within as well.

  10. #50
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    With Bruno as our hitting coach this lineup will have "BOP" in it next year. He worked extremely well with Parmelee and Plouffe, great move. I wish we could and hope we will get Rick Anderson out of here.

  11. #51
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    And they leave in place Gardenhire and Anderson.

    I do not see how you can change everything except those 2 and leave them in place. That is insane.
    I could see this being a "you guys have one more year or so to turn this around" and by turn it around, they don't nessicarly need to win 90 games, but they need to show a vast improvement over the last two years. They are viewing Anderson and Gardy's accomplishments as a whole, not just two seasons.

    Make no mistake about it, this wasn't on Gardy and Anderson this year anyways, that starting rotation was an embarrassment there isn't a coach alive that could take a bunch of AAA burnouts and turn them into a legit rotation. Most people said they needed some new blood in, well, they just brought in three new coaches to the staff who will be working with these players every day, that is quite a bit of new blood IMO.

    Also as mentioned above, they did fire the GM last year, I understand fans being frustrated, but if you just go and fire everyone every-time a bad season happens you end up in a mess.

  12. #52
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS View Post
    With Bruno as our hitting coach this lineup will have "BOP" in it next year. He worked extremely well with Parmelee and Plouffe, great move. I wish we could and hope we will get Rick Anderson out of here.
    How exactly is Anderson the problem?

    Also I think Bruno should be given some credit for Revere as well. Did anyone hear if Molitor is joining the staff? That would be awesome.

  13. #53
    Senior Member All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Dog Dungan View Post
    LVEN3's updated post states that Rick McWane, Rick Stelmaszek, Steve Liddle, and Jerry White have been let go, and Vavra and Ullger will be overseeing infield and outfield instruction, respectively.
    These are substantial changes. I wonder how the Twins offseason plan shapes up given that Gardy and Andy are one year deals.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    And they leave in place Gardenhire and Anderson.

    I do not see how you can change everything except those 2 and leave them in place. That is insane.
    I could see this being a "you guys have one more year or so to turn this around" and by turn it around, they don't nessicarly need to win 90 games, but they need to show a vast improvement over the last two years. They are viewing Anderson and Gardy's accomplishments as a whole, not just two seasons.

    Make no mistake about it, this wasn't on Gardy and Anderson this year anyways, that starting rotation was an embarrassment there isn't a coach alive that could take a bunch of AAA burnouts and turn them into a legit rotation. Most people said they needed some new blood in, well, they just brought in three new coaches to the staff who will be working with these players every day, that is quite a bit of new blood IMO.

    Also as mentioned above, they did fire the GM last year, I understand fans being frustrated, but if you just go and fire everyone every-time a bad season happens you end up in a mess.
    How about 2 bad seasons? How many managers/pitching coaches keep their jobs after being the worst team in the league for two straight years?

    On the bright side, with the Astros joining the AL next year, Ryan/Gardy/Anderson can falsely claim "Improvement" in 2013- by illicitly inflating their win total to 70+ and NOT being the worst team in the league- --

    so there is that....
    Last edited by jokin; 10-04-2012 at 06:52 PM.

  15. #55
    Senior Member All-Star Jim Crikket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by one_eyed_jack View Post
    I'm not sure how I feel about this "shake up". I would rather have either kept the entire crew together for one more win-or-else year or completely cleaned house and started fresh. But this seems like a lame half-measure where they're throwing a few guys under the bus just so they can say they did something.

    The other thing is I keep reading about how this paves the way for guys to be brought from Rochester. Do we have to fill every opening by promoting from within? Things have gone stale in this organization, it's a situation that begs for an infusion of new ideas from someone from the outside. Instead we're going to move people up just because it's their turn. Great.

    And if Gardy and Andy go next year, I'm sure they'll be replaced from within as well.
    A couple of points I'd make in response: Gene Glynn was only added to the organization 1 year ago. Tom Brunansky has only been back with the organization for what? 2-3 years (hired July 2010). Bobby Cuellar, while he did spend time in various coaching capacities with the Twins over the years, has also spent time in a number of other organizations, so he's hardly a Twins organization "lifer". If these three are indeed added to the Big League club, I don't see it as your typical "inside the organization" promotions.

    Also, while it may be true that Gardy, Andy, Ullger and Vavra remain in Big League positions, I don't think there's any doubt that with Glynn, Cuellar and Bruno, Terry Ryan would be putting in place a potential core of successors to Gardy and his gang. If the 2013 season starts off with another crappy April, I wouldn't assume the holdovers keep their jobs all the way through 2013.

    Paul Molitor is on record saying he'd be interested in a coaching spot, too, if the Twins want to talk to him about it. Add him to the Glynn, Cuellar, Bruno trio and that would be sending a clear shot across the bow at Gardenhire.
    I opine about the Twins and Kernels regularly at Knuckleballsblog.com while my alter ego, SD Buhr covers the Kernels for MetroSportsReport.com.

    ~You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant~

  16. #56
    Senior Member All-Star Jim Crikket's Avatar
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    Frankly, the more I think about today's news, the more I wonder if the Twins haven't essentially told Gardenhire that 2013 will be his final year as manager, win lose or draw. They're allowing him to keep his closest friends on staff for his final year, but cleared room to install the core of eventual successors, as well.
    I opine about the Twins and Kernels regularly at Knuckleballsblog.com while my alter ego, SD Buhr covers the Kernels for MetroSportsReport.com.

    ~You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant~

  17. #57
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    Maybe they can make Bobby Valentine the new 3b coach...

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by J-Dog Dungan View Post
    LVEN3's updated post states that Rick McWane, Rick Stelmaszek, Steve Liddle, and Jerry White have been let go, and Vavra and Ullger will be overseeing infield and outfield instruction, respectively.
    These are substantial changes. I wonder how the Twins offseason plan shapes up given that Gardy and Andy are one year deals.
    If Ryan/Pohlad aren't waiting to see who becomes available in the managerial/pitching coach MLB depth pools (Washington/Scoscia,etc) before making a further commitment to Gardenhire/Anderson, they are being derelict in their duties and exposing more of the penny-wise/pound foolish thinking that has gotten them in the current mess they find themselves mired in.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Crikket View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by one_eyed_jack View Post
    I'm not sure how I feel about this "shake up". I would rather have either kept the entire crew together for one more win-or-else year or completely cleaned house and started fresh. But this seems like a lame half-measure where they're throwing a few guys under the bus just so they can say they did something.

    The other thing is I keep reading about how this paves the way for guys to be brought from Rochester. Do we have to fill every opening by promoting from within? Things have gone stale in this organization, it's a situation that begs for an infusion of new ideas from someone from the outside. Instead we're going to move people up just because it's their turn. Great.

    And if Gardy and Andy go next year, I'm sure they'll be replaced from within as well.
    A couple of points I'd make in response: Gene Glynn was only added to the organization 1 year ago. Tom Brunansky has only been back with the organization for what? 2-3 years (hired July 2010). Bobby Cuellar, while he did spend time in various coaching capacities with the Twins over the years, has also spent time in a number of other organizations, so he's hardly a Twins organization "lifer". If these three are indeed added to the Big League club, I don't see it as your typical "inside the organization" promotions.

    Also, while it may be true that Gardy, Andy, Ullger and Vavra remain in Big League positions, I don't think there's any doubt that with Glynn, Cuellar and Bruno, Terry Ryan would be putting in place a potential core of successors to Gardy and his gang. If the 2013 season starts off with another crappy April, I wouldn't assume the holdovers keep their jobs all the way through 2013.

    Paul Molitor is on record saying he'd be interested in a coaching spot, too, if the Twins want to talk to him about it. Add him to the Glynn, Cuellar, Bruno trio and that would be sending a clear shot across the bow at Gardenhire.
    I agree with this. This talk of the Twins only bringing in insiders is not exactly true. The team is going to have a philosophy, it makes sense to bring people in for a year or two in lower level positions to learn that philosophy before promoting them to higher positions. Many successful businesses outside of baseball follow this model.

    I will also add that I really like Terry Ryan and I am glad that he is the general manager. Every statement that he makes is spot on and aside from the Marquis signing he has been very solid in his decision making. He is not flashy but conservative and patient and I appreciate that, it bodes well for long term success.
    Papers...business papers.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by one_eyed_jack View Post
    I'm not sure how I feel about this "shake up". I would rather have either kept the entire crew together for one more win-or-else year or completely cleaned house and started fresh. But this seems like a lame half-measure where they're throwing a few guys under the bus just so they can say they did something.

    The other thing is I keep reading about how this paves the way for guys to be brought from Rochester. Do we have to fill every opening by promoting from within? Things have gone stale in this organization, it's a situation that begs for an infusion of new ideas from someone from the outside. Instead we're going to move people up just because it's their turn. Great.

    And if Gardy and Andy go next year, I'm sure they'll be replaced from within as well.
    Smells like club "paralysis" to me...

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