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Thread: Mike Redmond's Knowledge of the Marlins' Fire Sale

  1. #1

    Mike Redmond's Knowledge of the Marlins' Fire Sale

    I'm curious whether, in going through the interview/negotiation process, the Marlins informed Redmond (or any other candidates) that there were likely to be significant roster changes this offseason that would drastically impact the Marlins' ability to even field a .500 baseball team in 2013?

    In the end, Redmond probably accepts the job either way -- after all, it's a MLB managing job, and there are only a few vacancies each off-season. But you do wonder what Redmond was thinking this morning as he was drinking his coffee and reading the Miami Herald sports section.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Marlins have zero expectations going forward now, it really is an ideal situation for Redmond to walk into, if he can get them even to be a .500 club in a few years he will be a success.

  3. #3
    Or, maybe Redmond had a major hand in who they received in the deal. He was a manager in the Blue Jays system after all, so he would know specifically what minor league players to target in a deal of this magnitude. I'm guessing he had a huge hand in who they asked for and received, and were able to get players that will help Miami turn it around.

    Outside of it seeming gross and bad for the sport, I'm guessing Redmond knew exactly what players to target and who could help Miami going forward.

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    Senior Member Triple-A
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    Yeah, i think everyone forgets Redmond was a minor league manager for the Jays. So maybe he had some say in this???

  5. #5
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    I almost started a topic last night titled "Does Mike Redmond have the worst job in MLB, or the best."

    I would think the best, but in that organization there is no guarantee that management's expectations are reasonable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twins Fan From Afar View Post
    I'm curious whether, in going through the interview/negotiation process, the Marlins informed Redmond (or any other candidates) that there were likely to be significant roster changes this offseason that would drastically impact the Marlins' ability to even field a .500 baseball team in 2013?

    In the end, Redmond probably accepts the job either way -- after all, it's a MLB managing job, and there are only a few vacancies each off-season. But you do wonder what Redmond was thinking this morning as he was drinking his coffee and reading the Miami Herald sports section.
    Was probably thinking, should have applied for the Toronto job :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Twins Fan From Afar View Post
    I'm curious whether, in going through the interview/negotiation process, the Marlins informed Redmond (or any other candidates) that there were likely to be significant roster changes this offseason that would drastically impact the Marlins' ability to even field a .500 baseball team in 2013?

    In the end, Redmond probably accepts the job either way -- after all, it's a MLB managing job, and there are only a few vacancies each off-season. But you do wonder what Redmond was thinking this morning as he was drinking his coffee and reading the Miami Herald sports section.
    Was probably thinking, should have applied for the Toronto job :-)
    Hahahahah probably. But obviously the Blue Jays must not have liked him to be the next Manager.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Marlins have zero expectations going forward now, it really is an ideal situation for Redmond to walk into, if he can get them even to be a .500 club in a few years he will be a success.
    Except their owner fired Girardi after he didn't win enough with another low budget team (but did win MOY). Hopefully, Redmond shows enough ability as a manager that, after his eventual firing, he can land somewhere better.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Marlins have zero expectations going forward now, it really is an ideal situation for Redmond to walk into, if he can get them even to be a .500 club in a few years he will be a success.
    Except their owner fired Girardi after he didn't win enough with another low budget team (but did win MOY). Hopefully, Redmond shows enough ability as a manager that, after his eventual firing, he can land somewhere better.
    That was a lot about personality with Girardi, though.
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  10. #10
    Twins Daily Writer Big-Leaguer Cody Christie's Avatar
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    Some of the other fire sales for the Marlins have brought them back World Series titles. Maybe this one will do the same and Redmond can have the last laugh.

  11. #11
    Senior Member All-Star Jim Crikket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody Christie View Post
    Some of the other fire sales for the Marlins have brought them back World Series titles. Maybe this one will do the same and Redmond can have the last laugh.
    How many of those WS titles were won with the same manager who had to deal with the first team after the fire sale? (It's a legit question... I honestly don't know and don't feel like looking it up.)

    One would hope that those running the team were up front with Redmond about their plans to blow the team up when they hired him so he'd know what he was getting in to. That would be the ethical way to do things. That said, you'd be hard pressed to find many people who would define the people who own/run the Marlins as being highly ethical, so who knows what they did or didn't tell Redmond?

    It's probably a good situation for a first time manager like Redmond, though. Even if ownership expectations are unreasonable, the rest of baseball knows what a crappy hand he's been dealt and if he can have even marginal success, it will enhance his job prospects with other organizations when his owner's unreasonable expectations eventually send him packing in Miami. And of course he got a 3 year contract so he's not going to starve for a few years anyway, regardless of what happens.
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  12. #12
    It's funny that the Marlins' strategy bears some similarity to what the Rays have become so celebrated for doing (Building up young talent, playing them early, then selling off when it becomes too expensive), yet even though the Marlins have actually WON two championships, they are considered the scum of the Earth. I think the difference, however, is that Marlins do it with a lot of huge free agent signings, and also lack any subtleness to what they're doing.

    If you're a fan of the Marlins (and there aren't that many that really care), it must outright torture. If you're a player that signs a mega-deal with them, though, is it really that bad? The people it's worse for are the people they DON'T trade, like the Giancarlo Stantons, Logan Morrisons, etc. These guys see that the money is there to bring in all the talent, then when it doesn't work after 3 months, they get left with a shell of a team. But the guys who signed those contracts still have their contracts, and get to play them out for (presumably) greener pastures.

    I don't feel sorry for Redmond because guys like he, Matheny, and Walt Weiss are traditionally "under-qualified" for the job to begin with. I think we're seeing that baseball managers really don't matter as much as some people think they do. And in the case of Redmond, if he doesn't work out for the Marlins, how is that a black eye? Fredi Gonzalez and Joe Girardi trampolined off the Marlins to much better jobs anyway.

  13. #13
    It's a wonderful opportunity for Redmond. Many of us, even in Twinsville, looked at Redmond as maybe managing for another year or two and then advancing to a coaching job somewhere, and then being a manager. But he got a career boost.

    For players in Miami, it is not always as bad as it looks. Right now, Houston and Miami are two places that you could land and maybe revive your career (perfect stops for, say, a Liriano or a Young). You look at Pittsburgh (and maybe Kansas City). Garrett Jones has a career because of Pittsburgh, for example.

    And, in the scheme of things. someone has to lose in a 162-game season.

    What is almost as bad is fielding a $100 million team and coming in last place.
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  14. #14
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosterman View Post
    It's a wonderful opportunity for Redmond. Many of us, even in Twinsville, looked at Redmond as maybe managing for another year or two and then advancing to a coaching job somewhere, and then being a manager. But he got a career boost.

    For players in Miami, it is not always as bad as it looks. Right now, Houston and Miami are two places that you could land and maybe revive your career (perfect stops for, say, a Liriano or a Young). You look at Pittsburgh (and maybe Kansas City). Garrett Jones has a career because of Pittsburgh, for example.

    And, in the scheme of things. someone has to lose in a 162-game season.

    What is almost as bad is fielding a $100 million team and coming in last place.
    I think 349 posts from Rosterman are not enough. Damn fine post. Refreshing perspective.

  15. #15
    Senior Member All-Star Jim Crikket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rosterman View Post
    It's a wonderful opportunity for Redmond. Many of us, even in Twinsville, looked at Redmond as maybe managing for another year or two and then advancing to a coaching job somewhere, and then being a manager. But he got a career boost.

    For players in Miami, it is not always as bad as it looks. Right now, Houston and Miami are two places that you could land and maybe revive your career (perfect stops for, say, a Liriano or a Young). You look at Pittsburgh (and maybe Kansas City). Garrett Jones has a career because of Pittsburgh, for example.

    And, in the scheme of things. someone has to lose in a 162-game season.

    What is almost as bad is fielding a $100 million team and coming in last place.
    I think 349 posts from Rosterman are not enough. Damn fine post. Refreshing perspective.
    First... "fielding a $100 million team and coming in last place" is exactly what the Marlins did. Their opening day payroll last season was in excess of $100 million.

    Second, if Terry Ryan ends up trading Willingham, Span and Morneau this offseason (not exactly a completely unthinkable possibility), won't he be doing essentially exactly what the Marlins have done? I can only imagine, however, that if he gets no more in return than what the Marlins were able to get from Toronto, he'll be skewered in Twinsville. Now imagine that he had done this just one season after Target Field opened up. It's bad enough to do it after three years in a new ballpark, but the gaudy paint in Miami has barely dried on their stadium.
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  16. #16
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Crikket View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rosterman View Post
    It's a wonderful opportunity for Redmond. Many of us, even in Twinsville, looked at Redmond as maybe managing for another year or two and then advancing to a coaching job somewhere, and then being a manager. But he got a career boost.

    For players in Miami, it is not always as bad as it looks. Right now, Houston and Miami are two places that you could land and maybe revive your career (perfect stops for, say, a Liriano or a Young). You look at Pittsburgh (and maybe Kansas City). Garrett Jones has a career because of Pittsburgh, for example.

    And, in the scheme of things. someone has to lose in a 162-game season.

    What is almost as bad is fielding a $100 million team and coming in last place.
    I think 349 posts from Rosterman are not enough. Damn fine post. Refreshing perspective.
    First... "fielding a $100 million team and coming in last place" is exactly what the Marlins did. Their opening day payroll last season was in excess of $100 million.

    Second, if Terry Ryan ends up trading Willingham, Span and Morneau this offseason (not exactly a completely unthinkable possibility), won't he be doing essentially exactly what the Marlins have done? I can only imagine, however, that if he gets no more in return than what the Marlins were able to get from Toronto, he'll be skewered in Twinsville. Now imagine that he had done this just one season after Target Field opened up. It's bad enough to do it after three years in a new ballpark, but the gaudy paint in Miami has barely dried on their stadium.
    Jim, I seriously cringe at the implications of the actions of Loria in South Florida. There may be decent reasoning for it but to toss aside a ball club to this degree after 3 months(it started in July). When you think about the public funding. The Vikings were lucky to get the stadium bill passed prior. It could have monkey wrenched the process for us.

    I'm sure attendence wasn't what it was supposed to be... It never seems to be in Florida. The Stadium was a built with a tacit promise at the least. 3 months is way too quick to start over. 2013 could have been different... Stranger things have happened.

    As for the Twins comparison... Mauer and Morneau are still here... Some of us have been advocates for a fire sale. The Twins appear to be resistent to do that. Some fans(most) would break the daggers out if a fire sale ever happened but some of us would understand that the Twins are trying to do what makes the most sense.

    The Marlins just made a terrible P.R. move because of seriously bad timing and it will effect any effort to build a loyal base in the future. It will be good for some players to get a chance at a career because like Rosterman says... Some teams are just going to be that place for Garrett Jones to go and get a chance. Baseball will survive as a league but baseball in South Florida just wobbled big time.

  17. #17
    Senior Member All-Star Jim Crikket's Avatar
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    I think you're right, brian. Think about what kind of effect this could have across the state where the Rays are trying to figure out how to get a new ballpark. Now, they have a whole lot of very different political issues to wade through and, to their credit, the Rays have done a helluva job of building their organization in to a perenial contender the right way. But it's still Florida and the bottom line is that, so far, no approach has been found to generate significant attendance for Major League Baseball in that state. Having winning teams in St Pete hasn't done it and building a new stadium in Miami hasn't done it. Loria owed it to Miami residents/fans and to his fellow owners to make a more concerted effort for at least 2-3 years after the stadium opened. If I owned the Rays (or the A's), I'd be wanting to run Loria right out of baseball.
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  18. #18
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    'Three years ago, the Marlins reached an agreement with the players' union to increase spending in the wake of complaints team payroll had been so small as to violate baseball's revenue sharing provisions. But the trade with Toronto leaves the Marlins with an estimated opening-day payroll of $34 million, which would be their lowest since 2008. Oakland had the lowest payroll in the majors last season at $59.5 million.'

    And, as usual, Loria showed his disdain for the press and fans..'"Not today, boys," he said. "If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm not going to figure it out for you."'

    Yup, they figured it out alright...you lied to all the fans...since: 'Many fan complaints involved the ballpark, which was paid for mostly with taxpayer money as Loria promised a new era of higher payrolls and more competitive teams.'

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