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Thread: The Marlins are Ridiculous... Or Are They? Baseball Econ 101

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxtung View Post
    You can keep stating that spending is bad because the Phillies, Red Sox, etc... did not play well last year but when you look at the league as a whole the spenders win more than the non spenders. So yeah, spending might not significantly improve the Twins 2013 playoff chances, of course it might we don't know, but immediate success isn't the only point of spending in 2013. I would point you to Shane's post #56 as to other reasons spending is beneficial. Not spending does nothing to help your club. It only helps you bottom line short term.

    WTF. where did I ever say bad? Spending per se is not going to fix the problems of the 2013 Twins. At this point you have someone who is a fourth outfielders in Mastro playing center. Parmalee in right, Carrol another utility player at 2 or short along with someone who is a replacement level player. With two players who were good in a utility role starting you now have no bench. 3 base is debatable. That is a hell of a lot of question mark positions on a team. Yes I hope this spring that Benson, Hicks and Arcia play so well they can't be sent down. I don't even think it is unreasonable to hope that. What the heck was out there for middle infielders? Drew? From what I read, good bat, declining defense due to injuries. Is that a wise investment? Was there any other middle infielder out there worth spending money on that was going to improve the team long term? Long term with the pitching and spending money is a different thread. Read what the fellow Twins daily people had to say before the market started.
    Twins Daily - Deep Starting Pitching Market Is A Lucky Break For Twins
    Some people's opinions have changed.

    Is a long term contract with a pitcher with a sustained record of near .500 winning percentage and an ERA well over 4 really going to help your team long term? Is the average fan going to get excited about that?

    You sign free agents to fix a couple of spots on your roster, not rebuild the whole roster.

  2. #62
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    WTF. where did I ever say bad? Spending per se is not going to fix the problems of the 2013 Twins. At this point you have someone who is a fourth outfielders in Mastro playing center. Parmalee in right, Carrol another utility player at 2 or short along with someone who is a replacement level player. With two players who were good in a utility role starting you now have no bench. 3 base is debatable. That is a hell of a lot of question mark positions on a team. Yes I hope this spring that Benson, Hicks and Arcia play so well they can't be sent down. I don't even think it is unreasonable to hope that. What the heck was out there for middle infielders? Drew? From what I read, good bat, declining defense due to injuries. Is that a wise investment? Was there any other middle infielder out there worth spending money on that was going to improve the team long term? Long term with the pitching and spending money is a different thread. Read what the fellow Twins daily people had to say before the market started.
    Twins Daily - Deep Starting Pitching Market Is A Lucky Break For Twins
    Some people's opinions have changed.

    Is a long term contract with a pitcher with a sustained record of near .500 winning percentage and an ERA well over 4 really going to help your team long term? Is the average fan going to get excited about that?

    You sign free agents to fix a couple of spots on your roster, not rebuild the whole roster.
    Adding one FA pitcher right now (I think the other good one was acquired in the Revere trade) such as Marcum (Lohse aside from past history would have been best for the price) helps out dramatically. I don't worry immediately about the Mastro situation or the MI situation. Teams can win without such things settled at the beginning of the season.

    Anyway, I am not sure how to respond to you without referring to a previous post. The average fan is going to be able to tell the difference between Marcum and Correia. Also, again, investing in such free agents doesn't mean you are stuck with them. Trading them for 2014 and beyond talent is one option. No one is talking about spending just to spend (this notion is really driving me crazy around here) and there certainly are better ways for the Twins to be spending the $75ish million or whatever that they already are spending ($14 million between Correia, Blackburn, and Pelfrey!!).

  3. #63
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    Marcum, if healthy, has talent. Is he Carl Pavano of 2010 for this team or Pavano 2012? If you think he is going to contribute like he can, then he would be a good signing. Is Marcum for 3/4 of a year and Sam Deduno for 1/4 of the year a way to rebuild?
    At a pay site that I don't pay for there is an article about how long TJ surgery lasts. They were quoted as Kerry Woods pitched the longest before needing a second TJ or retiring at 876 innings. Marcum is over 500 innings. Why do you suppose the Brewers are not interested in him? They know him best medically.
    To dismiss the position player dilemma as can be sorted out later in a thread about spending money is interesting. The concept of spending money on starting pitching and the Twins issues with it is in another thread.
    Trading signed free agents brings very little in return unless they are high quality. Why would you trade high quality. Just say the Twins went crazy and bid up Edwin Jackson. 4/56. For the season Worley, Pelfrey and Diamond come through and pitched near like they have in their best seasons. Mays and Meyers look ready. Wimmers looks healed. To trade Jackson would be a choice. He pitches like he always has. How much of that contract do you think the Twins would have to eat?

  4. #64
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Don't sign good players, because if everything works out perfectly you won't need them, and you'll end up with too many good ones.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    Don't sign good players, because if everything works out perfectly you won't need them, and you'll end up with too many good ones.
    Yeah, that'd be a crying shame :-)

    Like you, it always cracks me up to see people aggressively saying that the team SHOULDN'T go get players to make the team better...you know, aggressively defending the team's payroll cutting for a 2nd year in a row after two horrific seasons. Just boggles my mind. In this case, as if it's a guarantee Mays and Meyer work out and are good, that Gibson is very good, etc.

    If you end up with too much pitching talent(which we are in no danger of whatsoever), then that's awesome and maybe someday we can do what Tampa does, trade that for other needs using the pitching. Again though, there's no reason to believe we'll be in that situation any time soon...

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    Don't sign good players, because if everything works out perfectly you won't need them, and you'll end up with too many good ones.
    You are correct in that they can't sign too many good players. The definition of good on these pages varies greatly on what constitutes a good player. This is especially true in the pitching department. So what is your definition of a good player beyond someone who did not sign with the Twins?

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