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Thread: Blue Jays need a left handed hitting power bat at 1B. We have 2 of them.

  1. #41
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    The trade is over, we lost out on that one, so forget about it.

  2. #42
    Senior Member All-Star YourHouseIsMyHouse's Avatar
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    I looked at the title and thought..."Hhmmm. What are you getting at...?"

  3. #43
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Twins Twerp's Avatar
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    Wait to trade mornie untilnhis value is up...after allstar break. Trade of'ers for pitching now

  4. #44
    Morneau will put LOTS of fans in the seats in Toronto and Rogers who owns the Bluejays have several Sports Networks in Canada where Morneau is very well known. It makes sense for them to have him at 1B or DH. It addresses a left handed power bat that the Blue Jays need. Don't forget they were interested in him this year at the trade deadline. Let's just say I wouldn't be surprised to see him dealt to the Jays.

  5. #45
    Wait to trade mornie untilnhis value is up...after allstar break. Trade of'ers for pitching now
    Would you trade Willingham and Span for Lincecum?

  6. #46
    Senior Member All-Star 70charger's Avatar
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    Okay, legit question here. Just because Morneau is Canadian doesn't necessarily mean that he's some sort of national hero, does it? I mean he's from British Columbia, and here we are suggesting Toronto as if it's the same thing. They're about as far apart as Seattle and New York. Is the "Canadian thing" really that important?

  7. #47
    Okay, legit question here. Just because Morneau is Canadian doesn't necessarily mean that he's some sort of national hero, does it? I mean he's from British Columbia, and here we are suggesting Toronto as if it's the same thing. They're about as far apart as Seattle and New York. Is the "Canadian thing" really that important?
    He's probably the best known Canadian Baseball player in the game right now, even more so than Brett Lawrie who plays for the Jays, or Joey Votto for the Reds. Morneau won Canadian Athlete of the year in 2008 (Over all hockey players) which has only happened twice before. Ferguson Jenkins and Larry Walker were the other two baseball players. He also narrowly missed out in 2006 his MVP year to Steve Nash who had just won his second MVP in a row in basketball. So to answer the question yeah he is a national hero in Canada and if the Twins were smart they could probably get a stronger deal from Toronto than from any other team because of that fact.
    Last edited by robbie111; 11-15-2012 at 12:17 AM.

  8. #48
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    This whole thing is confusing as **** to me, everybody said the Buerhle deal last year was terrible, and its not like he came out and had a career year this year or anything. He had a 3.74 ERA in the NL while pitching in an extreme pitchers park. He is owed basically 15 mil a year from here on out! (Baseball reference actually shows he is owed 18 mil in 2014 and 19 mil in 2015) not sure how accurate that is, but if that is the case....wow even worse. On what planet does anyone think either way that this is a contract we would want to bring on? Literally for a couple mil more a year we could go out and get an ace like Greinke (though I don't think that is prudent either)

    I guarantee the Marlins would have given him away for nothing but salary relief this year, but nobody would bite. You bring WAR into the conversation incorrectly seeing how there is a very good chance that Morneau produces much higher then last year (since he was coming back from an injury and had a slow start) also Reyes, though pricey is still a damn solid player which WAR doesn't show his true value IMO. Also they got a guy in Josh Johnson who could ultimately be the best FA pitcher on the market come next year, he isn't exactly owed Peanuts, but there is no such thing really as a "bad" one year deal.

    So at the end of the day: No, I wouldn't take Buerhle for even a straight salary dump, much much much less trading a guy like Morneau (who has plenty of value on his own) and Revere (Value both in a trade and in the organization for him) now if Toronto magically wants to pick up 18 of the 45 still owed to Buerhle in the deal then perhaps it would be worth discussing, but as it sits now? No way!!

  9. #49
    There's no way I'd want Buerhle for Morneau, I'd look towards Romero who had a horrible year and has had surgery to clean out his elbow but was Toronto's Ace in 2011 and maybe one or both of Taylor Cole or Roberto Osuna. You could probably do even better than this as Morneau has way more value to Toronto than most people here realize.

    The Jays owners are Rogers Communications. They are a huge cable company and own several national sports television stations and a large number of sports radio stations. Morneau is to baseball what Steve Nash is to basketball. He brings in large numbers of Canadians to watch him play his sport. Rogers makes money not only from what the Jays sell for merchandise or ticket sales but mainly from advertising revenue on its sports stations. Having a centerpiece like Morneau (Captain Canada of baseball) would bring in a large number of new sponsors and companies and raise television ratings during Jays games which helps Rogers Sports increase rates for advertising time.

    By the way Rogers made $14 billion from its advertising revenue according to Forbes magazine, which is why they can afford to absorb salary. Rogers also is an owner of the NBA Toronto Raptors and tried this already by offering a huge contract to Steve Nash (Captain Canada of basketball) not because they thought he'd bring them a championship, but because of the money they would make selling advertising to television sponsors during Raptors games (Nash refused it and took much less to be with the Lakers). This is the same reason the Twins should hold out for more from the Jays if they were to trade Morneau as it's not about his value on the field per se, it's about his value to bring in advertising money.

    Anyone who thinks Toronto would have trouble absorbing Morneau's contract isn't looking at the big picture.
    Last edited by robbie111; 11-15-2012 at 04:22 AM.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Triple-A Dilligaf69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Ryan should be on the phone with the Jays to see if they're willing to work a deal that sends Morneau to Toronto for Mark Buerhle. Buerhle's contract is more palatable if it includes removing the $14m Morneau is owed in 2013. The Twins would have to send over more than Justin to make it happen but I think it's an idea worth pursuing. The Jays can't be all that excited about the $50m+ Buerhle is owed over the next three years.
    Do you think the Twins are really interested to get Buerhle and his big contract? I dont think they really are.

    Twins will not touch that contract....MB's best days are behind him...no thanks!

  11. #51
    Senior Member Triple-A Dilligaf69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbie111 View Post
    Wait to trade mornie untilnhis value is up...after allstar break. Trade of'ers for pitching now
    Would you trade Willingham and Span for Lincecum?


    NO and NO!!! Timmy is not a top starter anymore, he may not be a 3-4 anymore. He thrived in the pen this postseason and more then likely will finish out his career there plus isn't he owed a boatload of cash still??

  12. #52
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    First off Kelly Johnson is a FA and Josh Johnson was the entire reason that the Jays did the deal.

    The Buehrle talk is interesting. It is definitely an ugly contract and it's backloaded so it really doesn't work well for what I want the Twins to do. i.e. spend but maintain future payroll flexibility. It's actually not that bad when you look at total dollars spent factoring in Morneau's subtraction. People need to stop acting like he has any trade value. He could be a solid hitter next season but it's a position the Twins can fill between Doumit, Mauer and Parmelee with Arcia and Hicks getting more PT at RF/DH.

    2013 - 12M - 14M = 2M savings
    2014 - 19M
    2015 - 20M

    Overall it would be a 3 yr 37M contract (minus Morneau) which is exactly what I'm looking at spending on a FA pitcher this year. If you don't like this trade then how confident are you that the Twins can sign a pitcher as good as Buehrle for a similar amount?

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by 70charger View Post
    Okay, legit question here. Just because Morneau is Canadian doesn't necessarily mean that he's some sort of national hero, does it? I mean he's from British Columbia, and here we are suggesting Toronto as if it's the same thing. They're about as far apart as Seattle and New York. Is the "Canadian thing" really that important?
    God dammit, I was just about to post the same thing.

  14. #54
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    If the Twins wanted Buerhle, the time to get him was last season. I woudln't trade jack squat for that albatross of a contract, and to add to it, Mr. Buerhle is one of those low K pitch to contact guys that we have far too much of... Yes, he's walked that line better than any of our guys ever have, but he's still a risk of suddenly falling off the face of the earth. At his price and age, trading anything for him would be down right foolish, as would taking him on if Toronto put him on irrevocable waivers.

    If the Twins want a big name pitching and have the kind of cash needed to pay Buhrle, start thinking Annibel Sanchez or another big name free agent. This Buerhle talk is down right foolish.

  15. #55
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    The Jays's Top 15 Prospects for 2013, according to Fangraphs: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...pects-updated/

    Most of the pitching is a ways away...not that that's terrible, but I suspect the Twins are itching for ML-ready guys if they're going to trade.

    Still not sure what Morneau's value might be. I was skeptical, but Adam Laroche apparently is getting a lot ot suitors. Morneau's a bit younger, is AL-tested, and for all his struggles and inconsistencies lately, particularly in 2011, Laroche's 2011 was even more crappy.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...arocad01.shtml

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...orneju01.shtml

  16. #56
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Twins Twerp's Avatar
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    If u have two left hwnded power first baseman u have none... or is that qbs...i can never remember

  17. #57
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    Why Jays already have Lind & Cooper, far better than what the Twins got!

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