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Thread: Keith Law and his thoughts on Kyle Gibson PART DEUX

  1. #41
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    As to pitching, the team did change course when Deron Johnson took over the drafts. He drafted a lot of hard throwers where Radcliffe might have drafted focusing more on control guys. It's still open to see whether that change was good. However, the idea that the Twins are scared of strike out pitchers is absurdly stupid.
    I don't remember saying anything about them being scared of strikeout pitchers. I find it absurdly stupid you read what I wrote and thought that's what I said.
    But... but... you just said:

    ...but then got in hot water cause he was a strikeout pitcher and he didn't want to conform to the pitching style we have.
    So they're not "scared" of them, they don't "hate" them, they just draft them and then try to change them?

    Does not compute.

    Also, Matt Garza is not a strikeout pitcher unless you consider Scott Baker a strikeout pitcher as well.

  2. #42
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    anyway, we aren't getting anywhere...when stupid comes out, it's obvious minds are closed to other people's points of view...

    Clearly the team does like and value strikeout pitchers, seeing how many we've had in the system, over the years, on the major league team...
    Last edited by ThePuck; 11-16-2012 at 03:07 PM.

  3. #43
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    Clearly the team does like and value strikeout pitchers, seeing how many we've had in the system, over the years, on the major league team...
    Johan Santana, Francisco Liriano, Scott Baker, and Matt Garza say "hi".

    The bottom line is that the Twins have done a bad job of scouting hard-throwers and when combined with their bottom 15 picks through most of the 2000s, they've come up woefully short on arms. It's possible that they don't value hard-throwers as much as other teams but they certainly don't hate them.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    Clearly the team does like and value strikeout pitchers, seeing how many we've had in the system, over the years, on the major league team...
    Johan Santana, Francisco Liriano, Scott Baker, and Matt Garza say "hi".

    The bottom line is that the Twins have done a bad job of scouting hard-throwers and when combined with their bottom 15 picks through most of the 2000s, they've come up woefully short on arms. It's possible that they don't value hard-throwers as much as other teams but they certainly don't hate them.
    Two of those (Santana and Liriano) weren't part of the draft and weren't originally ours. How much did we develop those two before they were in the majors? How much did we pay to draft those two. One of those two was too expensive to keep so we got rid of him.

    Garza got shipped off cause he wouldn't listen to how they wanted him to pitch.

    Then there's Baker...

  5. #45
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    but again, we aren't getting anywhere...you guys are more than entitled to believe what you want...even Terry Ryan said that everyone wanted them to draft power arms so they went that way this year...seems to me that means they weren't really doing that before but have now decided, hey, that might be an idea worth exploring. I'm sure that's a stupid thing to think too...I'm just generally stupid...

  6. #46
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    but again, we aren't getting anywhere...you guys are more than entitled to believe what you want...even Terry Ryan said that everyone wanted them to draft power arms so they went that way this year...seems to me that means they weren't really doing that before but have now decided, hey, that might be an idea worth exploring. I'm sure that's a stupid thing to think too...I'm just generally stupid...
    They drafted Shooter Hunt.

    Again, the Twins may not place as high a priority on power arms as some other teams but you act as I'd they consciously avoid them. That is simply not the case.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    Clearly the team does like and value strikeout pitchers, seeing how many we've had in the system, over the years, on the major league team...
    Johan Santana, Francisco Liriano, Scott Baker, and Matt Garza say "hi".

    The bottom line is that the Twins have done a bad job of scouting hard-throwers and when combined with their bottom 15 picks through most of the 2000s, they've come up woefully short on arms. It's possible that they don't value hard-throwers as much as other teams but they certainly don't hate them.
    Two of those (Santana and Liriano) weren't part of the draft and weren't originally ours. How much did we develop those two before they were in the majors? How much did we pay to draft those two. One of those two was too expensive to keep so we got rid of him.

    Garza got shipped off cause he wouldn't listen to how they wanted him to pitch.

    Then there's Baker...
    Garza was shipped off b/c TB wouldn't take Slowey. Liriano had only pitched .2ip at A+ when we got him. Santana had even less experience. (Neither were drafted, not sure what you were getting at there). I think the Twins should get the majority of the credit for developing them. Santana still credits Cueller for teaching him his change up. Santana did sign an extension with us that bought out one of his FA years. I'm just not sure what the problem here is. The Twins have drafted a number of guys that could be called power guys when Radcliff was running things - Durbin, Hunt, Garza. And Johnson has gone even farther after those types. Radcliff also had a lot of success drafting control guys that other teams seemed to ignore. Shouldn't we be happy that the Twins found a market inefficiency and got a lot of success out of it?

  8. #48
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    Hmm. I thought this thread was about Gibson. I fail to see the value in Gibson as a relief pitcher--he was drafted and developed (and paid?) to be a starting pitcher, at which Gibson has yet to fail. Shorten his innings? Easy enough--Shut him down! There was a previous thread (forgot by who?) about Gibson first proving his viability (is that the same as stamina?) before inserting him into the rotation. So, establish a training program now and carry it through ST and into the rotation he goes. So far, I don't see five starting pitchers ahead of him in the depth chart--and I don't expect that there will be five come April.

  9. #49
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    WE had a pretty good story on this site on this:

    http://www.twinsdaily.com/content.ph...-Draft-Edition

    For some reason, the Twins went away spending high picks on pitchers in 2006 and 2007, had a couple of clunkers in 2008 and have had injuries to their top piicks in 2009 and 2010. Prior to that they were on a roll with pitchers, but I don't know if a change in philosophy is really the culprit. They just haven't done as well. Some of that might be on the new draft guy, but some is just on not taking guys in 2006 and 2007.

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