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Thread: Should Twins Offer Dempster A 3-Year Deal?

  1. #61
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    I have no problem over paying for players, those players have to be better then Ryan Dempster though. This team needs front line starters, not more #4/#5 types. I'd be shocked if Dempster were able to post a sub 4.00 ERA in the AL
    Except there really aren't any frontline pitchers. There are a bunch of #3s that people are touting better than that and Zach Grienke. So get used to this.
    Sanchez is a two as well. After that, the class thins quickly.

  2. #62
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    I gotta say, I'm shocked at the low opinions of Dempster. This guy has been a 200 inning horse for something like 5 years. His xFIP each of those years is right around 3.7. Is it just the AL thing? To me, his stats are that of a clear #2 guy. Where is all the pessimism about him coming from? It seems a little crazy. What are you guys looking at?

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    Super Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    I gotta say, I'm shocked at the low opinions of Dempster. This guy has been a 200 inning horse for something like 5 years. His xFIP each of those years is right around 3.7. Is it just the AL thing? To me, his stats are that of a clear #2 guy. Where is all the pessimism about him coming from? It seems a little crazy. What are you guys looking at?
    Age, and the assumption a 3 year contract is needed in order to land him. Two years, as a bridge to the next contending team, would be a different story I think.

  4. #64
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    I gotta say, I'm shocked at the low opinions of Dempster. This guy has been a 200 inning horse for something like 5 years. His xFIP each of those years is right around 3.7. Is it just the AL thing? To me, his stats are that of a clear #2 guy. Where is all the pessimism about him coming from? It seems a little crazy. What are you guys looking at?
    I think people are more down on his age and a three year contract than Dempster himself.

  5. #65
    Super Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    I gotta say, I'm shocked at the low opinions of Dempster. This guy has been a 200 inning horse for something like 5 years. His xFIP each of those years is right around 3.7. Is it just the AL thing? To me, his stats are that of a clear #2 guy. Where is all the pessimism about him coming from? It seems a little crazy. What are you guys looking at?
    I think people are more down on his age and a three year contract than Dempster himself.
    I like the way you think.

  6. #66
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    I gotta say, I'm shocked at the low opinions of Dempster. This guy has been a 200 inning horse for something like 5 years. His xFIP each of those years is right around 3.7. Is it just the AL thing? To me, his stats are that of a clear #2 guy. Where is all the pessimism about him coming from? It seems a little crazy. What are you guys looking at?
    I think people are more down on his age and a three year contract than Dempster himself.
    I like the way you think.
    Heh, yep. I know it's his decline phase and all that but I'd like Dempster at two years. I'm really torn on three. He'd be 38 at the end of that contract. I don't see how that would work out well for the Twins but they're going to have to pay somebody too much money.

  7. #67
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    If you never overpay for a player, how would you handicap the future by doing so?that is, if they will not sign a player this year for too many years, so as to have money available in the future, why would you expect them to spend it in the future? There is an established market for free agents, ans those dollars are not going down. Why do you care if they break even, or make a lot of money?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Call me crazy but I think spending 115 million this year would be stupid.

    As for Dempster... I'd be happy if Terry Ryan identified one guy... One guy who makes sense for at least 3 years or more and go get him. I don't care what they pay him... I care if they land him. If TR thinks Dempster is that guy... It wouldn't be my choice but Ok...

    One guy... And then bargain shop with some prove it deals. One guy who could be on the roster when Meyer hits town. If he signed for a price that makes Vodkadave throw up... I don't care. Pick the guy you like best and get him.

    Did I mention... I don't think that guy is Dempster.
    This is probably where I'm at, too. I'd like to have somebody for at least 4 years honestly, but I'm not sure who I'd want to give that to. I'd love Greinke or Sanchez, but I can't imagine the Twins outbidding the rest of the league for either. After those two I'm not sure what to think. You've got older guys (Marcum, Dempster) or inconsistent guys (Jackson) or hurt guys (Haren). That's perfectly normal options for free agency, but it's hard to fall in love with any of them.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericchri View Post
    This is probably where I'm at, too. I'd like to have somebody for at least 4 years honestly, but I'm not sure who I'd want to give that to. I'd love Greinke or Sanchez, but I can't imagine the Twins outbidding the rest of the league for either. After those two I'm not sure what to think. You've got older guys (Marcum, Dempster) or inconsistent guys (Jackson) or hurt guys (Haren). That's perfectly normal options for free agency, but it's hard to fall in love with any of them.
    It depends on the guy. I'd love to have Jackson, Sanchez, or Greinke for four years. Dempster and Marcum, not so much.

    Either way, Ryan needs to overpay for somebody. It's an ugly situation to be in but that's what five years of bad drafts (at least in the pitching department) gets a team.

  10. #70
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Sanchez is a two as well. After that, the class thins quickly.
    Given his durability issues and lack of anything particularly flashy about his NL numbers, I would feel more comfortable classifying him as a very good 3.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Sanchez is a two as well. After that, the class thins quickly.
    Given his durability issues and lack of anything particularly flashy about his NL numbers, I would feel more comfortable classifying him as a very good 3.
    Eh, I don't know if I'd even argue with that. Tomato, tomahto.

  12. #72
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Eh, I don't know if I'd even argue with that. Tomato, tomahto.
    I only argue it because it means I have trouble with calling him "frontline"

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Eh, I don't know if I'd even argue with that. Tomato, tomahto.
    I only argue it because it means I have trouble with calling him "frontline"
    I'm pretty liberal with #2/#3 rankings. To me, a number #3 is a guy who often pitches like a #2 but can't be relied upon to be well above average every year (say, Brad Radke). I think Sanchez is a little better than that (but not by much).

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Eh, I don't know if I'd even argue with that. Tomato, tomahto.
    I only argue it because it means I have trouble with calling him "frontline"

    I'm pretty liberal with #2/#3 rankings. To me, a number #3 is a guy who often pitches like a #2 but can't be relied upon to be well above average every year (say, Brad Radke). I think Sanchez is a little better than that (but not by much).
    Hard for us to recognize, seeing as how we haven't had any in so long :-)

  15. #75
    NO, NO, NO, NEVER. He is Pavano, NO. I would rather sign no one and go with what we got then sign Dempster. He got tore apart in the AL last year. I would rather see Franky come back and that is making me puke in my mouth.
    Last edited by sotafan; 12-04-2012 at 04:53 PM.

  16. #76
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericchri View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Call me crazy but I think spending 115 million this year would be stupid.

    As for Dempster... I'd be happy if Terry Ryan identified one guy... One guy who makes sense for at least 3 years or more and go get him. I don't care what they pay him... I care if they land him. If TR thinks Dempster is that guy... It wouldn't be my choice but Ok...

    One guy... And then bargain shop with some prove it deals. One guy who could be on the roster when Meyer hits town. If he signed for a price that makes Vodkadave throw up... I don't care. Pick the guy you like best and get him.

    Did I mention... I don't think that guy is Dempster.
    This is probably where I'm at, too. I'd like to have somebody for at least 4 years honestly, but I'm not sure who I'd want to give that to. I'd love Greinke or Sanchez, but I can't imagine the Twins outbidding the rest of the league for either. After those two I'm not sure what to think. You've got older guys (Marcum, Dempster) or inconsistent guys (Jackson) or hurt guys (Haren). That's perfectly normal options for free agency, but it's hard to fall in love with any of them.
    Yeah... It's like shopping in Warroad... The stores only have so much to offer. Still... It's where the shopping must be done. I wonder what Terry thinks of the winter meetings. Meetings and phone calls with people all day... Agents... GM's... Reporters hounding you for information... Mostly talking with folks who want to take advantage of you at every turn.

    From the outside it seems like a fun exciting time but I think for A GM... It would be a stressful time. I'd probably need an IV filled with scotch to wind down.

  17. #77
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    We don't need no pitching, just let polhads have all the money and be happy watching the last place Twins for another 4 years.

  18. #78
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    Warroad is a boom town!

  19. #79
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    I'm pretty liberal with #2/#3 rankings. To me, a number #3 is a guy who often pitches like a #2 but can't be relied upon to be well above average every year (say, Brad Radke). I think Sanchez is a little better than that (but not by much).
    Which is fair. My original point was more that if you're waiting to overpay only a "frontline" guy - it's pretty much Grienke you're waiting for. I can see your case for Sanchez, but I wouldn't classify him there. And that's primarily why he'd be on my list of guys not to overpay for. (overpaying him to be a class of pitcher I don't agree he's in)

  20. #80
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    I don't think you can overpay for a pitcher unless he gets TJ. In 4 years pitching prices will go up another 10m a season.

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