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Thread: Article: Ben Revere Traded to Philly for RHP Vance Worley & Top Pitching Prospect

  1. #221
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAM DC Twins Fans View Post
    A dissenting voice--dont like this trade...

    Worley is a decent pitcher--maybe a number 3--will be number 2 on Twins--but wont be enough to get us to 500. The other pitcher (May) had an ERA approaching 5 in AA ball. No matter what the official prospect list says--he is not a top prospect...bottom line we didnt get enough for Revere.
    They lost almost 200 games the past two seasons and play in the same division as a defending AL champ whose core players are all in their prime. I could care less about the Twins making it to .500 in 2013, other than how it affects intangibles like signing free agents who want to play for a winner. And give the Twins' inability or reluctance to sign big ticket free agents, I'm not losing any sleep over that.

  2. #222
    Senior Member All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    The distance between Worley and PJ Waters (or whomever he's replacing in the rotation) is greater than the distance between Revere and Mastroianni/Benson/Hicks. Our pitching is that gawdawful.

    Worley >>>>> Waters ; Revere >> Mastro

    This trade makes the Twins better in 2013 and beyond.
    Unfortunately, you have to factor the trade into the totality of all the moves thus far, the loss of Span, plus Revere, is crushing to the top of the lineup and to the OF defense. Again, Worley pitches one in five games, Span and Revere played virtually every day of the week.
    Well if we are factoring the Span trade, we'll have to factor in the remaining moves too, before we can make a determination about our competitiveness in 2013.

    In short, trading Revere for Worley+ makes the Twins better in 2013, and that seemed to be the current argument.

  3. #223
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    Number three pitchers are now just "decent"? And the Twins only surplus, besides money, is outfielders. How would people that do jot like this trade suggest the Twins get better?

  4. #224
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    What a steal!!!!!!!!

  5. #225
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    The distance between Worley and PJ Waters (or whomever he's replacing in the rotation) is greater than the distance between Revere and Mastroianni/Benson/Hicks. Our pitching is that gawdawful.

    Worley >>>>> Waters ; Revere >> Mastro

    This trade makes the Twins better in 2013 and beyond.
    Unfortunately, you have to factor the trade into the totality of all the moves thus far, the loss of Span, plus Revere, is crushing to the top of the lineup and to the OF defense. Again, Worley pitches one in five games, Span and Revere played virtually every day of the week.
    And when he pitches, Worley, like any starter, has about as much power to affect the outcome of the game as the other 9 guys combined. Revere was a fine ballplayer, but any organization that considers the loss of a .330-ish OBP from the top of a lineup "crushing" isn't going anywhere anyway. Given that the Twins entered the offseason with a 2013 rotation with only one certain member, and one with only one year in the majors to boot, it seems to me like they've had their doubts about contending in 2013 before the winter meetings even started.

    A quick and dirty WAR comparison says Revere/Deduno = Mastro/Worley in 2012, with Mastro playing part time and Worley missing a quarter of the season. I think they have a good chance to equal or exceed what Revere and Deduno might have done/ will do for the Twins in 2013.

  6. #226
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    My excitement is palpable.

    Literally. I think I just crapped myself.
    I am not going to go through the comments. I will just second this and move on!

  7. #227
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Who knows if we are better in 2013... I'd say yes at this moment because of Worley alone but who knows.

    I have a different view on things. (everyone says Duh)... Anyway... I have a different view on things... The Starting pitching to me is the big dense heavy object in the Twins Galaxy that everything ends up rotating around. Just sucked in by the gravity of it...

    I think taking two steps back on offense to gain one step forward on the mound... Is an overall step forward for the team. We still have offensive pieces in place... but if the rotation improves... You got a chance to break out of that orbit and give your team a chance to show what they are made of. Any Offense would be sucked into the black hole of the 2012 rotation.

    The team has to balance first... even if balance means a lesser offense to get down to the pitching level. (that sentence will be tough for me to explain if you don't get or agree with what I'm saying).

    I hope Terry Ryan isn't done... I assume he isn't... I think 2013 is better right now as we stand and hope it gets even better.

    Disclaimer... I'm not making the call for a title... I'm saying I feel a little improvement and a step in the right direction.
    Reading this post, I'm not clear how adding just Vance Worley/subtracting your lead-off batting CFer w/ no obvous replacement- and- the premeire defensive RF- makes this team better. One additional mid-back-rotation starter stabilizes and balances the team but one day a week
    Like I said... it would be tough for me to explain.

    Maybe this way... Let's say the Twins went out and were just given... Tulowitski, Cano, Longoria and Hamilton. Free pick ups for the Twins...

    It would be easy to say that the Twins would be an improved team. No doubt... Or would they... The Twins are out of balance. Those bats would be explosive but the Pitching just trumps it. We may have increased talent but have little to show for it.

    On the other side... If the Twins just simply added some arms that can keep the huge numbers off the board. Now you got a ball game and you can start to see what kind of team you have. Even if you lose a couple of players on the offensive side. A pitching staff can give you an opportunity. It's better balance in my opinion.

    Like I said... It's hard to explain and I'm sure that some dandruff is falling from the head scratching.

    How bout this way... I know Worley is just one guy... There is more work to be done on the mound but each improvement in the pitching staff is an improvement overall because the Pitching was so far down and you really can't improve until the pitching catches up and it has a lot of catching up to do... Losing offense will not hurt at all because it was going to hurt anyway until the pitching improves.

    You gotta balance things out to find out what you have on either side.

    Just theories of mine. I wish I could express this one better.

  8. #228
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    I think you posters are missing the major result of the trade: People are excited! They care! Fans are now believing that the Twins are moving toward building a consistent winner--and improving the team for 2013. The off-season isn't over--there will be a free agent pitcher signed who will be an improvement. Right now it's back-and-forth between player-agents and Twins/other teams. Face it they aren't calling the Twins up looking for an offer hoping to get one from the Twins--they are sort of a "last resort" option right now.
    Also consider, there are probably three teams that have already pencilled Josh Hamilton in their lineup--at least two of them are wrong! There will be further trade opportunities after the big names sign. Worrying about service time--baloney! The Twins have stated--and demonstrated that they will pay to retain top players. They are well aware that there is still an abundant supply of OF prospects--these guys have to be promoted in order for the younger to also advance--and there is a need put put some sizzle in the lineup! A new arrival--a newly promoted "hot-shot" creates excitement. Promote Hicks, see what he can do--and if he fails, trade him/demote him, and say "Next!". It's past time to be penny wise and pound foolish about constipating the minor leagues. The Twins need to put an exciting product on the field and attract top talent. If every 1st rounder has to spend 5-6 years in the minors, pretty soon no top player will sign and the Twins will have to "pass" on top amateurs in order to find someone who would actually sign with the Twins. UGH!

  9. #229
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    May will improve in AA this year and hopefully move to AAA at some point this season.

    Anyway, Verducci loves it for the Twins. Kevin Millar just started jabbering incoherently about Revere, including that he has a "great arm."

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    May will improve in AA this year and hopefully move to AAA at some point this season.

    Anyway, Verducci loves it for the Twins. Kevin Millar just started jabbering incoherently about Revere, including that he has a "great arm."
    haha wow.....Great arm? Yeah and Kevin Millar was fast....haha

    Does anybody else ESPN does not report on anything but who they Red Sox or Yanks might go after...like this trade made no news! ESPN's "BREAKING NEWS" - "Yanks offer Youk 1 year 12 million dollar contract"..end of baseball news....god I hate most of ESPN.

  11. #231
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    I somehow now have the MLB network and have enjoyed the winter meetings coverage.

  12. #232
    Senior Member Triple-A luke829's Avatar
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    I really don't have anything new to contribute, so I'll just go with the flow by agreeing 100%, grat trade.
    Mastermind of the "Free Bert" sign.

  13. #233
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Who would have thought that we would be considering who the Twins should sign as a FA fill-in OF this offseason???

  14. #234
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    Who would have thought that we would be considering who the Twins should sign as a FA fill-in OF this offseason???
    I'm ready for someone to provide a list because I don't feel like researching it myself. Would love to do some imaginary shopping.

  15. #235
    In October, Sickels came out with his preliminary top 50 Pitching prospects. Meyers was 28 and May was 32. Can't imagine that much has changed since mid Oct? Looks like a top 100 (or close to it) guy to me.

  16. #236
    Fantastic trade, I love it. Keep adding those arms until we have too many

  17. #237
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Darin Masroianni is probably the happiest person on the earth about the Twins offseason. I don't see how he doesn't start in CF this year. They may need a #4 OF to back him up because I can't believe they'd call up Hicks to sit. I wonder if a fourth OF could be part of a Morneau trade.

    I don't think we need to worry about the top of the lineup. Carrol has a better OBP than either and Revereo or Span, while Mastro has good plate discipline and is a more interesting hitter than Revere.

  18. #238
    Good trade. I've been a fan of Worley for some time now, had him on my fantasy team last season to help out in the K department.

    The prospect in addition sounds pretty good as well.

    I just hope the Twins have a plan to keep Worley on this roster long-term, because he has to be entering his 3rd year of his service clock at this point.

    It's a step in the right direction improving pitching. And the Twins have in 2 consecutive deals sold High in a seller's market. The Bill Smith Era is over.

  19. #239
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer FrodaddyG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by crapforks View Post
    http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/p...ore-sense.html

    Speculation that those two (Worley-May) plus one piece (Brown or a catcher) was maybe getting them Justin Upton
    But, but....."Revere is a nice-guy, worthless, low-ceiling nobody"....
    It was speculated on a blog, it must have been close to actually happening!!!

  20. #240
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Two words:

    Grady Sizemore.

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