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Thread: Article: Vance Refrigeration: How Worley Will Succeed With The Minnesota Twins

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    Owner All-Star Parker Hageman's Avatar
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    Article: Vance refrigeration: How Worley will succeed with the Minnesota Twins


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    Head Moderator MVP glunn's Avatar
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    Great article. Let's hope that his elbow holds up.

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    Senior Member All-Star YourHouseIsMyHouse's Avatar
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    Really, really great read. Solid baseball analysis and I've heard a lot of people complaining about him. His xFIP has been fine too and there is not much reason to believe he'll regress in Target. Pitching in the AL may be the most difficult part of the transition. Not only is Worley cheap, but he's under team control till 2018 as well.

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    Thanks, Parker. Great analysis as usual. The thought of another Blackburn scares the crap out of me but I agree with YourHouse that Worley's secondary numbers look noticeably better than Blackburn's so that gives me a bit more hope.
    It's a weird feeling but this is the first starter the Twins have acquired that I'm excited to watch since Target Field opened. Don't get me wrong, Diamond was fantastic last year, but he wasn't expected to come in and slot right into the rotation (not to mention that he was a Rule 5 pick). The sad part is that Worley doesn't stand out in any way. He's just a pitcher with a decent track record.

  5. #5
    Nice work, Parker. Your use of video in your articles to illustrate your point is top-notch.
    "Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."

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    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Let's hope Doumit can frame that pitch!

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    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    **Then again, the Twins just traded away two very solid defensive center fielders and could employ a “Balls-To-The-Walls” defensive alignment in the outfield.
    Both Benson and Hicks are better defenders than either Apan or Revere Mastro is no maestro with the glove, but he is at least as good as Revere, IMHO. Revere is overrated because of all the Web Gems, many of which came after he got bad jumps on the ball and had to use his make-up speed to make circus catches.

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    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    One notable difference between Worley's and Blackburn's surgeries is in the way they were handled. Blackburn's loose particles were discovered after the 2009 season. The medical staff decided not to remove them. Blackburn pitched with them (and in considerable pain) throughout 2010. That likely did damage to other parts of his elbow. If you remove the chips early, you can prevent further damage.

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    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Yes that is a key difference in the treatment of the injuries. Blackburn may actually be ruined now. Worley was taken care of appropriately.

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    Senior Member MVP
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    I like Worley a lot if healthy. A lot.

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    Senior Member Triple-A
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    That 2 seamer looks filthy! I dont think his elbow is going to be a problem. Lets hope im right!

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    Senior Member Triple-A Don't Feed the Greed Guy's Avatar
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    Parker, I read your article on the Strib site, and had to log in and thank you. This is an excellent piece of reporting on a journalist's short time frame. It includes video, fan-friendly anecdotes, and meaningful stats. Thanks for scooping us on "The Vanimal." Nice work.

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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer righty8383's Avatar
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    One of my favorite pitches in baseball is the 2 seamer to lefties just like the pitch you see in the video Parker provides.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    One notable difference between Worley's and Blackburn's surgeries is in the way they were handled. Blackburn's loose particles were discovered after the 2009 season. The medical staff decided not to remove them. Blackburn pitched with them (and in considerable pain) throughout 2010. That likely did damage to other parts of his elbow. If you remove the chips early, you can prevent further damage.
    Worley injured himself May 11 of 2012 and pitched another 16 games and 90+ innings before being shut down for surgery in late August. So I guess it isn't just the Twins medical staff that is "incompetent."

    http://articles.philly.com/2012-05-2...teral-ligament

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    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    Mastro is no maestro with the glove, but he is at least as good as Revere, IMHO. Revere is overrated because of all the Web Gems, many of which came after he got bad jumps on the ball and had to use his make-up speed to make circus catches.
    Regarding Mastro, I'll recycle last spring's Ft Myers anecdote where he returned to the dugout after his half-inning in the field and Tom Kelly admonished him "let's keep the 360s to a minimum out there, OK?" I guess a bad route to the ball happens to anyone, but once a guy gets a knock on him like that it's tough to live down with the braintrust.

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    Senior Member All-Star Badsmerf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    Both Benson and Hicks are better defenders than either Apan or Revere Mastro is no maestro with the glove, but he is at least as good as Revere, IMHO. Revere is overrated because of all the Web Gems, many of which came after he got bad jumps on the ball and had to use his make-up speed to make circus catches.
    Completely disagree. Span is a very good CF and Revere is a great CF. They are both pretty elite with the glove. If Revere had a better arm, he would be hands down the best in the game right now. Bad jumps? You obviously didn't watch this kid play very often. Revere consistently got to balls that I wouldn't have thought anyone would get to. You want to knock him, knock him on the bonehead plays when the ball bounced out of his glove. I don't get the hate here.
    Do or do not. There is no try.

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    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badsmerf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    Both Benson and Hicks are better defenders than either Apan or Revere Mastro is no maestro with the glove, but he is at least as good as Revere, IMHO. Revere is overrated because of all the Web Gems, many of which came after he got bad jumps on the ball and had to use his make-up speed to make circus catches.
    Completely disagree. Span is a very good CF and Revere is a great CF. They are both pretty elite with the glove. If Revere had a better arm, he would be hands down the best in the game right now. Bad jumps? You obviously didn't watch this kid play very often. Revere consistently got to balls that I wouldn't have thought anyone would get to. You want to knock him, knock him on the bonehead plays when the ball bounced out of his glove. I don't get the hate here.
    I can't argue if Hicks is a better defender because I haven't seen him play. I can't argue with the poster cmathewson because I don't know if he has seen both Hicks and Benson play.

    I have seen Benson play in his Sepetember call up and he was decent. Comparing that small Benson sample size with the larger Revere sample size. Not even close... In my opinion.

    The bad jump thing. Sometimes sure... But not enough to tag him with it. Yet the tag seems to be there along with the base runners running wild thing. Objectivity left the building with some along time ago... And yes maybe with me as well... But I swear I'm trying.

    Now if Hicks and Benson are better defenders than Revere like Mathewson said. All I got to say is WOW!!! Make that double WOW!!! Because Revere already made me say WOW!!!
    Last edited by Riverbrian; 12-07-2012 at 10:02 PM.

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    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Two threads in one! First I'll comment on Worley--In slo-mo that two-seamer looks hittable, but I'm sure it's an effective pitch. I think he'll be reasonably effective next year and given the Twins rotation, that is great news.

    CF defense--I saw quite a bit of baseball and Mastro is fast, but I don't think he is a great OF and I think he would be below-average in center. It is hard for a layman to judge what kind of jump fielders get, but my sense is that Mastro is below average there, he makes up for most of that deficit with good to great speed and his throwing is average. I saw Benson some in ST at both CF and RF and he made a couple of mistakes, but also made some outstanding plays. My guess is that he routinely gets better jumps than Mastro yielding more range with comparable speed, he has a real good arm as well. Hicks is reputed to be the whole package defensively--I only saw him hit on a minor league field--but I imagine he would still be a little raw.

    Gardy seems partial to the Jamie Carrolls and the Denard Spans of MLB--guys who turn outs into outs--over the fundamentally flawed (Plouffe, Nishi at SS), so I don't think any of these guys will win his favor until and unless they show they can make the routine plays 99.9% of the time.

  19. #19
    slightly off topic.

    I looked up some of Worley's 2012 starts and decided to watch one from July 25 when the Phillies hosted the Brewers.

    Some of you may remember Carlos Gomez hitting a long strike and trotting around the bases this summer... Worley was the pitcher during that humorous at bat.

    video here

    spoiler alert: Gomez strikes out looking on the very next pitch.

  20. #20
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    I see in MLB Trade Rumors that Philly is looking for a fifth starter now that they traded away Worley. Looking for low risk, high upside. Any way we can pump up Nick Blackburn's reputation and get a prospect or two for him? This guy can be an absolute all-star with a change of scenery. Right? Right?

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