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Thread: Connecticut School Shooting

  1. #21
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    No, I don't fault the networks. I fault each individual in power who buckles to pressure and throws their morality to the curb, but mostly, I blame the people who watch this trash. If there was no demand for it, news agencies wouldn't bother.

  2. #22
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    You know, it is possible to cover a story without glorifying these monsters or giving them the time of day. I understand people needing closure or a chance to try and rationalize these actions, but what we have isn't deep introspection as a society - we reach for quick fixes and look for easy targets to blame the situation on. These initial, heavily covered aspects of the killer have been VERY wrong in the past (see: Columbine) and are driven by a tasteless lack of ethics.

    You and me can't give them fame if we aren't given the ammo to do so. You and me can't put their name in the brains of every household. You and I can only control the degree you and I seek out information. The stream of information is controlled by the media, so deflecting blame from that is a ridiculous suggestion. Yes, we help motivate the media to do it, but it's just like the old "jump off a bridge" - just because many will eat it up doesn't mean you need to put it on the table.

    Also, no one said this causes anyone to do anything. But it is a fact that some of these people have openly stated in their manifestos that notoriety is part of their objectives - why should we give them that? I'm not suggesting that stopping this kind of coverage will stop these actions, I will suggest this kind of wall-to-wall coverage isn't making it LESS appealing. And I will certainly suggest that we should do everything in our power as a community (which should include the media) to not make these actions achieve the meaning the killers intend. It can only inspire others to do the same. Columbine proved that if you want to send your message in a pool of blood - you can and the media won't hesitate to help as long as their ratings get a boost.

  3. #23
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    You know, it is possible to cover a story without glorifying these monsters or giving them the time of day. I understand people needing closure or a chance to try and rationalize these actions, but what we have isn't deep introspection as a society - we reach for quick fixes and look for easy targets to blame the situation on. These initial, heavily covered aspects of the killer have been VERY wrong in the past (see: Columbine) and are driven by a tasteless lack of ethics.

    You and me can't give them fame if we aren't given the ammo to do so. You and me can't put their name in the brains of every household. You and I can only control the degree you and I seek out information. The stream of information is controlled by the media, so deflecting blame from that is a ridiculous suggestion. Yes, we help motivate the media to do it, but it's just like the old "jump off a bridge" - just because many will eat it up doesn't mean you need to put it on the table.

    Also, no one said this causes anyone to do anything. But it is a fact that some of these people have openly stated in their manifestos that notoriety is part of their objectives - why should we give them that? I'm not suggesting that stopping this kind of coverage will stop these actions, I will suggest this kind of wall-to-wall coverage isn't making it LESS appealing. And I will certainly suggest that we should do everything in our power as a community (which should include the media) to not make these actions achieve the meaning the killers intend. It can only inspire others to do the same. Columbine proved that if you want to send your message in a pool of blood - you can and the media won't hesitate to help as long as their ratings get a boost.
    Agreed... We have the ability(strength in numbers) to change lots of things... However... getting everyone to join hands is very difficult. Everyone hates the College Bowl system... If everyone who wants a playoff would link together... They could stop it... Have the alumni stay home... don't go to El Paso for the Sun Bowl... Dont watch it... The Schools and sponsors would lose money and things could change... If you hate partisan politics and polling seems to suggest that people do... If you want the Democrats and Republicans to work together for the good of us... We could band together and change things... We could vote them out... We have the power and the media is part of the problem. No doubt about that.

    I dream of media that educates... Not a media that entertains... I am in the minority... I wish I could have in depth news... News that gets down to why its important... Instead I get news that is condensed into tiny segments on important stories and overblown on the sensational issues. I won't get the news I want because not enough people want news the way I do... News isn't even news anymore in my opinion... It's slanted commentary these days and that slanted commentary gets the highest ratings.

    Expecting the media to take the high road is no different than expecting the Government to take the high road... Or... Wall Street... Major insurance companies... You name it... There is very little incentive to do so... You lose money on the high road... I'm not saying I agree with that... It just is what it is...

    The media isn't glorifying the monsters who kill. No one is standing in front of the camera and approving... They all say the buzz words that everyone is thinking... senseless... evil...

    The monster that the media feeds is the public monster and no media is going to walk away from it when the majority is tuning in looking for it. They can't wait for accuracy... They gotta get information and information quick... That means... Hearsay... The days of Cronkite are over... Satellite trucks can be anywhere in a moments notice. Reporters on scene in a jiffy... Audience waiting to find out in an instant... If you wait for accuracy... The audience is gone to one of the many other news operations that provides the hearsay. The Internet is another source to compete with.

    Who knows why people do this... I don't understand... I don't think I'm capable of such things... It could be the quest for fame... It could pure anger... Mental problems... The NRA... Video games... I don't know... I can only guess... Very few will or can understand something like this.

    I'm pretty sure that someone somewhere in the FBI or homicide squads across America... The CIA... Professors in College... There are people who have been studying this type of behavior and probably have some great suggestions to curb it... There are informed people in almost every field... however... way too often... the smart Informed people are shouted down by the uninformed people with more power.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
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    I will say that I was impressed seeing how the news focus has been different since Friday night. I don't watch a ton of CNN, but in light of this tragedy, I watched Friday night, and roughly 1/3 of the hour I watched was about the shooter. Saturday night, I returned home, and it was still the channel of choice from the previous night, so I watched. I was pleasantly surprised that in the hour+ that I watched, the shooter was not referenced by name once.
    Staff Writer for Tomahawktake.com, come check it out!

  5. #25
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Expecting the media to take the high road is no different than expecting the Government to take the high road... Or... Wall Street... Major insurance companies... You name it... There is very little incentive to do so... You lose money on the high road... I'm not saying I agree with that... It just is what it is...
    So we give up our expectations and our morals? Because that's what you are suggesting. You can say it isn't realistic, but you began by taking issue with the suggestion that it's wrong to focus on the shooter. Maybe you had another point, but I lost it in the multiple tangents.

  6. #26
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Morality was given up a long time ago... The Churches are filled with folks who talk of morality and still act immoral because Bob's morality is different than Tom's.

    I'm not saying its wrong to ignore the shooter. I wish we could... I took issue with the blaming of the media. The media is what we (not you, Brock or I) the people created.

    How is it supposed to work? CNN decides to downplay the shooter for the good of society. Who's gonna notice... Are you? Me? The average viewer? CNN would have to run promos afterwards... "CNN... We didnt mention his name during our Sandy Hook coverage" just to get anyone to know they didn't mention his name.

    Meanwhile... The viewers who didn't notice that CNN was staying away from adding to the killers legend. Those same viewers flip channels for information and there is MSNBC and Fox News with his picture and life story. And they watch MSNBC or Fox... Because they can get their arms around a picture and life story.

    Game over CNN loses and gains nothing for the loss because no one noticed anyway. MSNBC and Fox has a bigger audience... Charges more from advertisers... Make more money and they laugh at CNN because they have more viewers. As time goes by... If CNN doesn't change to what the people want... They go away all together or new directors are brought in to improve ratings and the directors say "what the hell were you thinking... Not talking about the killers".

    I understand that you are suggesting social responsibility for the media and I hole heartedly support your suggestion because I'd like that as well. However... They are a business. You have a long road to go if you expect the Media to be different than the Government or Wall Street.

  7. #27
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    I'm not saying its wrong to ignore the shooter. I wish we could... I took issue with the blaming of the media. The media is what we (not you, Brock or I) the people created.
    You may be making a chicken and egg point. One could argue that had ethics never been tossed aside, they would've never known it sparks more ratings. You seem to imply that we salivate and the media gives us what we want. I'd argue, the media tells us what to salivate for and we do.

    I also expect fair play and honesty in government and anywhere else. Free market isn't the Old West, there are still rules or it doesn't work. Part of the problem with journalism today is that they've thrown out the rule book. Anything to make the public salivate and I find that wrong. I understand it may be impossible to ever see that change, but I hope it can. I firmly believe the notoriety we give these monsters only adds to the chances of seeing another.

  8. #28
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    "Had ethics never been tossed aside they would've never known it sparks more ratings".

    Of course. Thats obvious...

    Someone came along and changed the news game and won that way... And the copycats follow... just like the success of the movie "Big" led to "18 again" and a whole bunch of "Big" like movies.

    They have thrown out the rule book and its sad. I guess the question is... Do you think News is a business or a responsibility?

    Id like it to be a responsibility but the people who own it... They think its a business and the success of the business is dependent on the wishes of the people.

  9. #29
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    You are demonstrating a very classic fallacy. Just because something is, doesn't mean it ought to be.

  10. #30
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Is there evidence that the media's coverage of these events is encouragement to subsequent slayings?

  11. #31
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Cue the Bruce Hornsby. "That's just the way it is... But don't you believe them"

    More power to ya... And I mean that sincerely. Start with your 2nd graders... I'll work on my sons... In my opinion... It's up to them to fix it. We broke it.

  12. #32
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    Is there evidence that the media's coverage of these events is encouragement to subsequent slayings?
    What sort of "evidence" could there possibly be? Even when one of these people live it's hard to take anything they say seriously. So no, there is no evidence either way, but I have trouble believing that infamy is a discouragement. At the very least, the infamy we give is a slap in the face of their victims whom generally die in obscurity while their killer is known forever. That's more than enough reason for me oppose the coverage.

  13. #33
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    Is there evidence that the media's coverage of these events is encouragement to subsequent slayings?
    Personally... I don't know. Like I said earlier..i'm sure there are some experts out there with a darn good idea of why. It's hard to hear them because the truth gets lost with all kinds of different things... Video games... Guns... Media... Meds... Parental care... The crumbling school system... Obama and sugar Imbalances.

    Lots of people throwing stuff at the wall.

  14. #34
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    What sort of "evidence" could there possibly be? Even when one of these people live it's hard to take anything they say seriously. So no, there is no evidence either way, but I have trouble believing that infamy is a discouragement. At the very least, the infamy we give is a slap in the face of their victims whom generally die in obscurity while their killer is known forever. That's more than enough reason for me oppose the coverage.
    Are you making a moral argument or an aesthetic one? It is only the appetites of consumers the media is feeding, however morbid they may be. Until its determined that this food is actually unhealthy, then there's no moral argument to be made. And even if it is proved unhealthy, ie. it increases one's likeliness of going out and shooting people, you can't stop the media serving it outright any more than you can stop McDonald's serving cheeseburgers, I would think. Its a product of living in a free society, the bad with the good. Don't eat it if you don't want to be fat.

  15. #35
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    Are you making a moral argument or an aesthetic one? It is only the appetites of consumers the media is feeding, however morbid they may be.
    Is it? You're making an assumption that are appetites are purely our own. Behavioral psychology and many other fields would argue that often what we want is told to us, not driven by us.

    Until its determined that this food is actually unhealthy..
    What constitutes "proof"? Other prior school killers have cited Columbine killers as inspiration. Not only is it counter-intuitive that fame would be a non-factor, it has been cited by subsequent killers as motivation. No one is suggesting it is the sole factor, but I do believe it contributes. I will make the argument that the focus on the killer and not the victims is morally wrong.

  16. #36
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    I'm not in the mood to get drawn into a debate (seriously I have seen enough dumb **** on facebook this week to make me want to leave that site forever) but all I am going to say is we need to start looking at gun control seriously in this country. We have proven time and time again that we make terrible decisions in this country when we allow private citizens to stock pile a half+ dozen weapons in their own home (often including auto and semi auto weapons)

    I'm not saying abolish the 2nd amendment (nobody really is), and I'm not saying people can't keep a hand gun in there home if they think it protects them (even though it really doesn't) and this has absolutely nothing to do with hunters, just these people who feel the need to keep multiple hand guns and semi/auto weapons in ones home.

  17. #37
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Is it? You're making an assumption that are appetites are purely our own. Behavioral psychology and many other fields would argue that often what we want is told to us, not driven by us.
    Nature or Nurture? The age old question... I gotta go primarily with Nurture myself... thats just my opinion... but the implication of that goes far beyond media. As matter of fact demographic research would tend to suggest that the under 24 crowd is not watching the news so I wouldn't be rock solid in the role news directly plays as an influence.

    The assertion that Media is more of an acceptable possible target for blame than gun control is questionable.

  18. #38
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    The assertion that Media is more of an acceptable possible target for blame than gun control is questionable.
    Again, that was never suggested. I don't purport to know why this individual did it. If anything, I'd suggest we'll never know.

    I'm only suggesting it's wrong that we spend more time making a killer infamous than we do celebrating life.

  19. #39
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    I'm not tying to start something... honest... Just re-posting your words to show where I became confused by your guns and Media sentiments.

    If I misunderstood... I apologize.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Here is what I'm proud of - we're 6 posts in here at TD.....and no one has taken this issue as a way to grandstand about guns. It seems like every time this happens - a school shooting, the batman movie, etc. - one side of the other has to use this to hammer their agenda. Let's keep that **** the frig out of this please.

    Couldn't agree with you more RP - these guys get all the fame and publicity they could ever hope for following these events. They become stars for a day in a sea of blood and it disgusts me. Hell, today, we had such a rush to name the shooter that the damn media is reporting the name of the brother as the shooter rather than the actual guy! Just so they can get the scoop on who slaughtered innocent children in a place they should feel is as safe as any in their lives.

    I can't imagine what that would be like. I teach second grade in a K-3 school, even thinking about this happening there makes me so angry at everyone who will now exploit this problem for whatever agenda they have. It's absolutely disgusting.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    The killers at Columbine were motivated, in part, by fame for their acts. Yet another tragedy happened when our media gave them that victory.

  20. #40
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    I don't understand your confusion. My criticism of the media isn't political. The guns, video games, mental health angles are all often political. I despise these tragedies being used to soapbox politically.

    My soapbox about the media is apolitical. It's about moral and ethical decency about the victims and the glorification of killers.

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