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Thread: Mackey: Twins Likely Done Making Significant Moves this Year

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
    Media members such as Darrin Wolfson, have stated that the Twins have made very few Free Agent offers.

    You make an offer. Two years for $10 million. The Player goes "humm, I want a third year" "Or, how about $11.5 million" or he thinks "That's reasonable, more than anyone else has thrown at me at the moment, I can live with that" and, bingo. You make a decision on an offer, or wait for another one and hope you can come back to the previous one. Like buying a house. You blow the seller out of the market, or your agent comes back and says other parties are interested and about to make an offer (you do, the other agents quickly tell their people on the bubble to make an offer). You have a certain window to accept or reject.

    I think we are seeing some guys who wanted a third year now having to revisit offers for two years or even one year (Saunders, Marcum, possibly). At some point, rather than 2 years at $15, they will start asking about one-year at $7-9 million. It will be interesting to see how this market ends up. Waiting too long can sometimes hurt as much as being the first (Baker, Feldman) out of the chute, although I think Baker and Feldman were both treated fairly.

    You have one-shot to make your offer. You can's tell the player, "hey, would like to sign you for somewhere between $4 and $8 million. It's arbitration on a grander scale with more people in the mix.
    Joel Thingvall
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    rosterman at www.twinscards.com

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    There were very few quality free agents so therefore there would be only a few offers. Takes two to negotiate.
    There were nearly 2 dozen starting pitchers better than Kevin Correia and Mike Pelfrey the Twins could have made offers to.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    There will always be excuse to defend the FOs lack of ability.

    -If we have a season like 2010, no need to 'waste money' because we won 94 games and ran away with the division. Those guys are surely good enough to repeat, no need to worry about improving a good club. Injuries NEVER happen.

    -If we have seasons like we've had the last two, well, no one wants to come here, so we can't give the money away. You can't pay good players to come here cause we're so bad.

    -Before that, it was bad revenue from the Metrodome.

    Wha will be the excuse when we finish with a winning record in 2-3 three years and it turns out we STILL don't go get quality FAs to help?

    The defenders have their bases covered...just insert new excuse...
    What free agent pitcher was available after the 2010 season. You never answer. You wanted Brad Penny?

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    What free agent pitcher was available after the 2010 season. You never answer. You wanted Brad Penny?
    Did I say 'in 2010', or did I say 'if we have a season like 2010.' It's just a scenario put out there.

    Is 2010 the only time we've had where we won the division and did nothing to address deficiencies? No. I could have used most any of our division winning teams and made the same point. 2010 just happened to be the first time it happened at TF.

    And don't think for a second I go out of my way to avoid answering your questions as if you've ever asked me something that stumped me or hurt my argument. Most of the time I just ignore you cause of the way you talk to people.

  5. #105
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    So when the season is over will we see that we had a payroll of 70/73 million for 2013?

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
    Ryan should be congratulated for cutting the payroll by 30 million dollars. It only took him a year to do so.
    by the end of 2013 payroll will be closer to 73 million , so he shaved 40 million from payrollin 2 years and another 20 million next year

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    Did I say 'in 2010', or did I say 'if we have a season like 2010.' It's just a scenario put out there.

    Is 2010 the only time we've had where we won the division and did nothing to address deficiencies? No. I could have used most any of our division winning teams and made the same point. 2010 just happened to be the first time it happened at TF.

    And don't think for a second I go out of my way to avoid answering your questions as if you've ever asked me something that stumped me or hurt my argument. Most of the time I just ignore you cause of the way you talk to people.
    Just a scenario. You threw out a scenario like 2010. In your scenario, when I questioned you about it the hypothesis you continue to avoid. I hold you to account for a statement and you don't like it. That is talking to people badly?

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    Just a scenario. You threw out a scenario like 2010. In your scenario, when I questioned you about it the hypothesis you continue to avoid. I hold you to account for a statement and you don't like it. That is talking to people badly?
    Holy carp. How many times do I have to say I wasn't referring to how you were talking to ME in your response to my post where I gave the scenario? 4, maybe 5 more times? Do you have comprehension issues? Where did I say you were talking badly to me in that post? I was talking, in general, that you have quite a history in insulting people around here but you have issues when people do the same to you. I was not saying you did it to me in your response to my scenario post. Get it now. Is it clear?

    I'm not avoiding anything. 2010 was just a scenario. A season where we won. Cause, you know, that's the only time decent pitchers would want to sign with a club. If you need to have names, how about Kuroda, Harang,...Westbrook.

    So, now, why is it okay for you to insult people, but you call foul when someone insults you?
    Last edited by ThePuck; 01-11-2013 at 03:12 PM.

  9. #109
    Super Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    Holy carp. How many times do I have to say I wasn't referring to how you were talking to ME in your response to my post where I gave the scenario? 4, maybe 5 more times? Do you have comprehension issues? Where did I say you were talking badly to me in that post? I was talking, in general, that you have quite a history in insulting people around here but you have issues when people do the same to you. I was not saying you did it to me in your response to my scenario post. Get it now. Is it clear?

    I'm not avoiding anything. 2010 was just a scenario. A season where we won. Cause, you know, that's the only time decent pitchers would want to sign with a club. If you need to have names, how about Kuroda, Harang,...Westbrook.

    So, now, why is it okay for you to insult people, but you call foul when someone insults you?
    Speaking of talking poorly to people....

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsnorth49 View Post
    Speaking of talking poorly to people....
    Yeah, because of the way he went insulting me time and time again when I first started posting here regularly (and continues to do) and with the way he talks to others consistently, he reaps what he sews. And then he complains when people dare give him some of his own medicine. If you notice, I don't talk to anyone else that way.
    Last edited by ThePuck; 01-11-2013 at 10:35 PM.

  11. #111
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Damned nurses and their sewing.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ballÖ and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  12. #112
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    That was hilarious sneep!

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    Holy carp. How many times do I have to say I wasn't referring to how you were talking to ME in your response to my post where I gave the scenario? 4, maybe 5 more times? Do you have comprehension issues? Where did I say you were talking badly to me in that post? I was talking, in general, that you have quite a history in insulting people around here but you have issues when people do the same to you. I was not saying you did it to me in your response to my scenario post. Get it now. Is it clear?

    I'm not avoiding anything. 2010 was just a scenario. A season where we won. Cause, you know, that's the only time decent pitchers would want to sign with a club. If you need to have names, how about Kuroda, Harang,...Westbrook.

    So, now, why is it okay for you to insult people, but you call foul when someone insults you?
    The Twins or most any team can not compete for a pitcher the Yankees want, Harang had 2 poor years in San Diego, Westbrook was never going to leave the Cardinals, If you feel insulted that I question the plausiblity and the reality of what you post, so be it. That is far different than character assassinations.

  14. #114
    I like both Johnson and Marcum also. I hope we are still talking to other players.
    Air Force retiree

  15. #115
    Correia is pretty shaky but Pelfrey, if healthy, could be a real good #3 starter.
    Air Force retiree

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmafret View Post
    Correia is pretty shaky but Pelfrey, if healthy, could be a real good #3 starter.

    I see you have an SR-71 picture...seems to have been taken from the boom pit. I was stationed at the home of the SR-71, Beale AFB, on my first assignment. I won an incentive flight to watch an in-flight refueling of the SR-71. I laid in the boom pit when it was getting refueled.

    It was awesome!

  17. #117
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jimbo92107's Avatar
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    Too many people seem to be missing the point of baseball. It's a game that allows you to apply pressure in endless ways, yet people strive to limit those ways with far too much hidebound tradition. It's a constant struggle between conformity and creativity. Every now and then we get a glimpse of the possibilities when we see guys like Bryce Harper and R.A. Dickey. These are guys that find ways to apply pressure to the opposition with their minds or with something unusual.

    I love watching Sam Deduno's crazy fastball. I love watching Cole DeVries walk a tightrope with every batter, and even how Pedro Florimon struggles to find a successful approach to hitting. Every now and then you see it: Just before a pitch, the batter suddenly knows where it's going to be; an infielder takes a step to his left. They think they know what's about to happen. The drama of baseball lies in that twilight zone between pure guessing and knowing for sure. It's ballistic poker. Every player is looking for physical signs, tells, analyzing the game situation, and using that semi-knowledge to find an edge, to apply pressure. Watching that happen is absolutely glorious.

    I don't care if the Twins sign some heavyweight outsiders or simply develop their team from within. Actually, that's not true; I'd rather see the young guys come up and figure out the game while I watch. It's the purest form of fandom - I'd rather see my team rise to greatness by drafting talented players and teaching them to win than by simply breaking out the owner's checkbook and buying a championship, like the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, Rangers, etc. That's why I'd like to see the Twins bring back Nick Punto - not as a player, but as a coach at a minor league level where he can get players thinking about the many ways to apply pressure. That's where the real game is played, between the ears.

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