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Thread: Deduno and Pitch f/x

  1. #1
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    Question Deduno and Pitch f/x

    While looking for pitch frame data for catcher I ran across some data for pitchers. I haven't seen the data presented this way and I haven't seen data before 2012.

    It turns out Sam Deduno netted a loss of 30 strikes per 1000 pitches. It wasn't the greatest number among starter but did rank third behind Justin Masterson and Jeanmar Gomez. Bad luck? Poor pitch framing on the part of the catcher? Umpires knowing his reputation not expecting a strike?

    Below is a link to a graphic from Texas Leaguers showing Sam Deduno pitches.

    http://pitchfx.texasleaguers.com/cha...strikezone.png

    Among starting pitchers, Freddy Garcia benefitted the most from getting strikes called on balls outside the zone. Among all pitchers, Jeff Gray had the worst "luck" losing a net of 39 strikes per 1000 pitches.

    This data may not mean anything. It might be the catcher. It might be the pitcher. Maybe it is a combination of both. Doumit has not fared well over the last few years in attempts to measure pitch framing. Did he catch many of Deduno's games? Maybe it is a combination the Twins want to avoid.
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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer FrodaddyG's Avatar
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    I'd say the wide spray chart of all the rest of those pitches wouldn't be motivating a lot of umps to give him the borderline calls.

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    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrodaddyG View Post
    I'd say the wide spray chart of all the rest of those pitches wouldn't be motivating a lot of umps to give him the borderline calls.
    Yep. If you're wild, umps are going to be less generous with their strike zones. If a pitch is borderline and was preceded by three pitches that nearly decapitated the batter, chances are it's going to be ball four.

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    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Yep. If you're wild, umps are going to be less generous with their strike zones. If a pitch is borderline and was preceded by three pitches that nearly decapitated the batter, chances are it's going to be ball four.
    That, and the catcher constantly having to stab at the ball when it ends up nowhere near the glove.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ballÖ and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgenswest View Post
    While looking for pitch frame data for catcher I ran across some data for pitchers. I haven't seen the data presented this way and I haven't seen data before 2012.

    It turns out Sam Deduno netted a loss of 30 strikes per 1000 pitches. It wasn't the greatest number among starter but did rank third behind Justin Masterson and Jeanmar Gomez. Bad luck? Poor pitch framing on the part of the catcher? Umpires knowing his reputation not expecting a strike?

    Below is a link to a graphic from Texas Leaguers showing Sam Deduno pitches.

    http://pitchfx.texasleaguers.com/cha...strikezone.png

    Among starting pitchers, Freddy Garcia benefitted the most from getting strikes called on balls outside the zone. Among all pitchers, Jeff Gray had the worst "luck" losing a net of 39 strikes per 1000 pitches.

    This data may not mean anything. It might be the catcher. It might be the pitcher. Maybe it is a combination of both. Doumit has not fared well over the last few years in attempts to measure pitch framing. Did he catch many of Deduno's games? Maybe it is a combination the Twins want to avoid.
    Ironically, he did his best when being caught by Doumit...small sample size all around, but still

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    I liked the Freddy Garcia angle. Helps perpetuate the belief that the Yankees get all the calls.

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    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    That, and the catcher constantly having to stab at the ball when it ends up nowhere near the glove.
    That too. Hard to do much in the way of "framing" when every pitch is 8 inches from the target.

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    I get the wild connection, but not sure how it fits Masterson.

    I haven't looked at the game charts for his games to know which catcher did the best job of getting strikes for the balls he threw in the zone. It will be a small sample of pitches in any case.

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    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    That was nice! Thank LaBombo

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    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    That was nice! Thank LaBombo
    Glad you liked it. I was pretty sure I wasn't the only person who has thought of Nuke Laloosh when watching Deduno. Hope he can learn to harness that wild stuff and put it to good use.

  12. #12
    Head Moderator All-Star glunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    Glad you liked it. I was pretty sure I wasn't the only person who has thought of Nuke Laloosh when watching Deduno. Hope he can learn to harness that wild stuff and put it to good use.
    I agree. The natural movement on his pitches would be hard on hitters if he could throw more strikes.

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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Joe A. Preusser's Avatar
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    Bull Durham. That was the first thing that came into my mind, my buddy even once commented that it looks like he needs to breath through his eyelids more.

    The second was from Major League when Wild Thing pitches before his glasses and Bob Eucker calls "Juuuuuuust a bit outside." Perhaps the only thing Sam needs is a pair of quasi-bad ass glasses?

  14. #14
    It'd be interesting to see how the type of pitcher fairs. It seems to me that umpires have trouble calling strikes with curve balls. They tend to look like high sliders but end up nearly in the dirt to get low strikes. Also with the great deal of movement Deduno gets, the ump really needs to pay attention. I agree that if he can tighten up the "shot pattern" his reputation will start to help him out. I really like this kids stuff, I hope they don't release him and keep working with him. I personally think he has ace stuff if he can harness it.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe A. Preusser View Post
    Bull Durham. That was the first thing that came into my mind, my buddy even once commented that it looks like he needs to breath through his eyelids more.

    The second was from Major League when Wild Thing pitches before his glasses and Bob Eucker calls "Juuuuuuust a bit outside." Perhaps the only thing Sam needs is a pair of quasi-bad ass glasses?
    Maybe that Wild Thing's killer Z bordered Buzz cut will do the trick.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelawareTwinsFan View Post
    Maybe that Wild Thing's killer Z bordered Buzz cut will do the trick.
    Let's hope so otherwise the next option might be the strip-able cardboard cutouts of Ryan and the Pohlad boys. I don't think anybody wants that!

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