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Thread: Article: Clearing the Path

  1. #1
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Article: Clearing the Path


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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Oldgoat_MN's Avatar
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    Alex Meyer pitched 39 innings in A+ ball in 2012. Trevor May pitched about 150 innings in AA with an 4.87 ERA and a WHIP of 1.450. I would think that neither will see MLB action this year unless the Twins are incredibly desperate.
    On the other hand I have a high regard for your opinion. Really Seth? Might we see these guys on the major league roster this year?

  3. #3
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgoat_MN View Post
    Alex Meyer pitched 39 innings in A+ ball in 2012. Trevor May pitched about 150 innings in AA with an 4.87 ERA and a WHIP of 1.450. I would think that neither will see MLB action this year unless the Twins are incredibly desperate.
    On the other hand I have a high regard for your opinion. Really Seth? Might we see these guys on the major league roster this year?
    Maybe. May is on the 40 man roster, and if he shows better control, there's no reason to think that he won't be brought up in September. Meyer is less likely, although he has more upside. He won't (and shouldn't) be rushed. He doesn't even have to be added to the 40 man roster until after the 2014 season, so there is no reason to. That said, if his stuff comes together, he could move very fast.

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    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    I agree that the Twins need to open up roster spots for many of the kids coming through the system. I don't agree that they needed to leave open quite that much room (and fill the spots they did with incredibly lackluster players).

    I'm actually tempted to write something about Ryan's refusal to address the middle infield situation and how it impacts the team in 2014.

  5. #5
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    I don't think there is anything blocking either Meyer or May from advancing very quickly if they are lights out.

  6. #6
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    I agree that the Twins need to open up roster spots for many of the kids coming through the system. I don't agree that they needed to leave open quite that much room (and fill the spots they did with incredibly lackluster players).

    I'm actually tempted to write something about Ryan's refusal to address the middle infield situation and how it impacts the team in 2014.
    Yeah, the purpose of this is not at all to justify the Correia signing. I'll never understand that one. I do get the bigger picture. I am perfectly fine with not doing anything in the middle infield though.

  7. #7
    "Clearing the path", that makes sense for outfield but who is seriously being blocked in the starting rotation? With both gibson and diamond in the rotation our starting staff has more holes than Swiss cheese. 0% chance on Alex Meyer reaching the majors this year right? And May has some control issues to work out and has not pitched that much in AA. I am fine with the twins not spending cash on a lost 2013 season but that saved money better be allocated to free agent spending in the 2014-2015 time frame to patch the holes and field a true contender. We are going to most likely need two infielders and a quality second tier pitcher or two.
    Last edited by pajavorski; 01-31-2013 at 09:50 AM.

  8. #8
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajavorski View Post
    "Clearing the path", that makes sense for outfield but who is seriously being blocked in the starting rotation? With both gibson and diamond in the rotation our starting staff has more holes than Swiss cheese. 0% chance on Alex Meyer reaching the majors this year right? And May has some control issues to work out and has not pitched that much in AA. I am fine with the twins not spending cash on a lost 2013 season but that saved money better be allocated to free agent spending in the 2014-2015 time frame to patch the holes and field a true contender. We are going to most likely need two infielders and a quality second tier pitcher or two.
    No one is blocking them. That's the point. And, at the end of the year, we'll find out if they need two infielders, one, none... Plouffe, Dozier, etc., will get the opportunity to show if they can be part of the plans for 2014, 2015, etc.

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    Senior Member All-Star
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    Trade Justin and we will probably need all four.

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    Senior Member Triple-A h2oface's Avatar
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    If we can all agree? Settle for might be the better question. This lull didn't have to happen. It was orchestrated by bad management, which is virtually the same as it ever was. (Sure, one can contend that Bill Smith was his own person and some of the management was different, and that he wasn't just a different guy wearing the same suit, but I can't.) How did i/we get here? Watching the days go by..........
    Last edited by h2oface; 01-31-2013 at 06:27 PM.

  11. #11
    I agree with what you are saying and I am not as upset about the lack of high end FA signings as many Twins fans are, but logical next step is that the Twins should not sign anyone next year either. Most of the guys you list will either be making their debut in 2014 or will need to be given a chance to learn from their experiences in 2013. It seems like next year is a more important year to let guys play and see what they can do.

    Maybe the lack of FA signings won't be so bad because at least then many of the top prospects will be in MN, part of the frustration as a fan is that even though the bases have been cleared, realistically we won't see a bunch of these guys until later in the year or not at all. Again I understand why, but let's face it, this is going to be a tough year for the fans who are paying big money to watch a bad team with a bunch of guys who won't be here in two years.

  12. #12
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by h2oface View Post
    If we can all agree? Settle for might be the better question. This lull didn't have to happen. It was orchestrated by bad management, which is virtually the same as it ever was. (Sure, one can contend that Bill Smith was his own person and some of the management was different, and that we wasn't just a different guy wearing the same suit, but I can't.) How did i/we get here? Watching the days go by..........
    Fair enough, but obviously the Twins front office has to move past that and do what they believe is the best thing for the long-term for the Twins. Twins FANS don't have to move past it, but it is the reality. They can't take back certain moves or picks, they can only go forward.

  13. #13
    I would've written a different list. I know the fast-track can work (Meyer has already had success at A+, and could see some mlb time if he dominates at AA this season,) but I think it is much more likely that some of the guys who have already debuted will progress to greater levels of production. Almost all players have a season or 2 of adjusting at the mlb level before they are stable players.These guys have already had those seasons:
    Sam Deduno
    Cole Devries
    Liam Hendriks
    Casey Fien
    Anthony Swarzak
    Chris Parmelee
    Trevor Plouffe
    Joe Benson
    Darin Mastroianni
    Brian Dozier
    Alex Burnett
    -all have seen some mlb time and offer their own reasons for hope, but would need to perform better than they ever have in the majors to be considered an asset. These are the guys who seem to be at the age and the point in their development that they will either excel and make a real impact, or falter and disappear.
    Last year, Diamond/Revere were at that point and established himself. Plouffe/Fein kind of did. Valencia/Hughes were at that make-or-break point and he broke.
    When I look at this list, I see some reasons for hope, but not many reasons for solid faith. I can easily imagine Plouffe going the way of Valencia, Dozier going the way of Luke Hughes, Chris Parmelee going the way of Brian Buchanan, Sam Deduno going the way of Willie Banks (sorry I couldn't come up with a more recent comp)...

    I hope a couple of these guys will find a ceiling higher than role-player as I think it there is an even slimmer chance that Gibson, Hicks, Arcia or May are going to be big impact players in 2013. I'll be happy if they get a chance to see some time on the big field and start to acclimate themselves. They are the hope of 2014 to me.

  14. #14
    Senior Member All-Star Jim Crikket's Avatar
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    Seth, I'll agree that you don't want to block your "top prospects," but I can't go along with the concept that guys who have merely "somewhat graduated" from minor league ball (whether that means they'll soon be at risk to being lost to other teams or that they've simply not demonstrably failed at the higher minor league levels) really "deserve" regular playing time at the MLB level.

    The argument that you don't block a young player should only apply when that player has shown a high likelihood of above average success in the Big Leagues. Someone who merely is graduating from the minors shouldn't feel entitled to a spot. If the Twins FO can find affordable veteran players that, in their judgement, are better ballplayers at a given position of need, those players should be acquired.

    In the Twins' past, those graduating minor leaguers with mediocre talent would inherit jobs because they were inexpensive and that factor alone kept the under-funded organization from being able to acquire better talent. But that should no longer be the sole determining factor.

    If a AA or AAA player wants a regular job on the Big League club, he should go out and prove he's a good bet to be better than anyone the team might be able to acquire via trade or free agency. If he can't do that, he shouldn't feel he "deserves" to have a path cleared for him on the Twins.

  15. #15
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    My question is why didnt we acquire 1 or 2 quality free agents , and then trade them come july,adding to our prospects? As well i question not taking Lara with a 2nd pick in the rule 5 draft. It would be nice to have a 98mph lefty avalible coming out of the pen , rather then Robertsons 5.40 ERA

  16. #16
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    I dont' think I said that any of the players have said they 'deserved' to be handed a job. I talked to Benson, Parmelee, Hendriks, Gibson, Dozier and Hicks and none of them have said they should be or will be handed anything. They know they have to earn it.

  17. #17
    Given the "clearing the path" theme, I certainly see a justification for these moves. If you are Pollyanna (and I am) there is pitching potential, outfield potential, and bounceback potential all over the place. Except one. And it's the one Seth acknowledges.

    Pedro Florimon has had a long time in the minors to develop, and has never hit. He is a flashy fielder, but makes way too many mistakes to overcome his weak bat. He's (most likely) not going to start hitting. And more importantly, we don't have any almost-ready middle infielders that he is blocking, probably for 2 years. Given the payroll, finding a solid SS on a 2-year deal would have made sense all around (still would, if any were available).

    As we put batting lineups together for 2013, the glaring holes are at #1 and #2, and we're hoping against hope that whoever mans CF can be one of those (which is a lot of pressure on Mastroanni, Benson, or Hicks), but without moving Mauer up to #2 (which isn't going to happen, in all probability), we don't have TWO guys. I don't mind starting Dozier at 2B, and Carroll at SS or utility, but the existence of both Escobar and Florimon is like admitting that we don't have a good-enough player, so we're going to rotate three backups.

    1 more player. Plenty of money. No blocking of an almost-ready minor leaguer. Dumping whichever of Escobar or Florimon, and just having 1 of them as a second utility/back-up guy along with Carroll. It just makes too much sense. Now, is he (was he) out there? That I don't know....

  18. #18
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Highabove's Avatar
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    I think J.C. about nails it. It's also possible to walk and chew gum at the same time.
    How does Saint Louis accomplish this along with Tampa and their abundance of Pitching (see KC trade.)
    Even the Twins turned over their Team with out missing a beat. How many players were on the 2002 94 win team and also on the 94 win 2010 team?
    Only once did the Team win less then 83 games during the period between those seasons.
    Also, who is suppose to pay for these throwaway seasons? The Twins will still be charging premium prices for their product.
    The above list contains to many average Players. We have seen this scenario before. (90's) No thank you.
    Last edited by Highabove; 01-31-2013 at 02:19 PM.

  19. #19
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    No room for error. If you will not sign free agents, every one of these guys has to work out and stay healthy and be effective for 5 or so years. I hope it works, because many more 90+ loss seasons, and they have lost me.

  20. #20
    I agree that these players may well turn the corner and become solid major league players but i also would have liked the Twins sign couple more pichers to one year deals for the 2013 season because with all pitchers the twins signed there's bound to be some busts because where they are in careers and health. Even if all these pitchers did make team hold back couple of younger starting pitchers for part of 2013 it would give the twins excellent pitchers that could be traded for some young
    prospects to help shore up some weakness in Twins farm system with middle infielders. Also signing of another middle infielder to help shore up the middle defense would have been prudent and if to minor league contract they could have stock piled him at triple AAA. The Twins could also be on track to be wild card tender if they get some pitching and play better defense up the middle because if M&M and Willingham have average to above average season the twins offense could be good enough to start winning few close games. The key is that pitching cann't be like last year where team is down 4 to 5 runs before the 3 inning. I look at Diamonds starts they were pretty much in those games because he held other team down and bull pen was good enough to hold and win the game. These young players if they all are up with Twins early it means twins have season 100 losses and is building for the 2015 season. I t will be good long term plan but pretty much writes of the season and comes down to just going to target field to watch baseball and dream of the future. It will also give the twins another good draft of player to stock there farm system. What happened 5 or 6 years ago when twins minor league drafts were such a bust.

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