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Thread: Bob Sansevere Interviews Dave St. Peter

  1. #21
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    And the Rays, who still were able to shore up their MI from outside the orgaization very cheaply this offseason and traded well from their own position of strength. All this for their current projected 2013 payroll of around $60M (so when the Twins hit that mark next year, they'll be competitive again, right?)

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwak View Post
    "...not just one or two players away from a world championship."
    "...build this thing and do it the right way."

    Logical conclusions from the above two statements:

    1) recognition that the Twins are in complete rebuild mode.
    2) We intend to do it the right way--through the draft and acquisition of inexpensive players (mostly minor leaguers).
    3) no plans to acquire expensive free agents until we think we are close to winning the World Series.
    4) this rebuild will take time--and we're not going to try to shortcut the process.

    Other answers state that Mauer and Morneau are not restricting the process. Omitted is that either are part of the solution.
    The fact that these two were in his opening statement seems more like a crutch and an impediment- my translation, they're already banking on the new version of the M & M boys (Meyer and May) who are going to be the designees to bail out this franchise, it's going to take a long time to get competitive again, Morneau's on the block to gain the team even more "flexibility", more years ahead for the rebuild....

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    Maybe I'm weird, but I get it. I especially appreciate that they aren't taking the shortcuts and are doing it the right way, through development. As we've talked about, that's how the Nationals did it.
    And I think most people will agree that this is the way to build a winner, but it's so frustratingly convenient that this way also just so happens to be the cheapest way for ownership. The Nationals did build through the draft, but they also happened to have the #1 pick in consecutive years that happened to feature two can't miss players along with top ten picks in nearly every year of their existance. The Twins have not had that (?mis?)fortune. To win a championship, this team is still likely going to need to suppliment through free agency and most of us just aren't going to believe they ever will as they have never commited substantial money to a free agent under this leadership.

    Same old, same old beef, I know, but we just want proof they are as commited to winning as the other clubs that visably demonstrate an effort.
    Last edited by nicksaviking; 02-11-2013 at 10:09 PM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    And the Rays, who still were able to shore up their MI from outside the orgaization very cheaply this offseason and traded well from their own position of strength. All this for their current projected 2013 payroll of around $60M (so when the Twins hit that mark next year, they'll be competitive again, right?)
    The Twins can only dream about the Scouting the Rays have.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
    The Twins can only dream about the Scouting the Rays have.
    I've been proposing for years that the Twins raid the Rays front office. Matt Arnold would run rings around anyone in the Twins FO, starting with Rob Antony- down to the mystery "stat guy" in the catacombs that TR supposedly runs the numbers by.

  6. #26
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thrylos98 View Post
    I buy this thing, but if so, they are not doing it the "right way". Willingham, Morneau, Doumit, Carroll, Correia, etc do not belong in a rebuilding team...
    Morneau has only one year left and with a solid start to the season suddenly builds trade value has hasn't had the past 12 months, Doumit at least serves a purpose as being a split guy with Mauer while keeping Mauer a bit more healthy, Willingham as discussed in other threads has been shopped before by the Twins, going into 2013 he is the only established major league starting OF on the roster, if Hicks/Benson/Parmelee all prove worthy then trade him, if not wait until you get a good offer like Span and Revere. Carroll has like zero trade value and at this point is blocking no one, other then Dozier potentially catching fire I dont see one legit MI on this roster in 2013 who will step up Florimon, etc all project as util guys as does Dozier at this point. Correia sucks but it is what it is at this point, nobody from the minors is really knocking on the door to get ML innings this year except Gibson (limited IP) and Hendriks, with the rest of the rotation in um...shambles, its not to far fetched to think not a single worthy pitcher will be blocked this year when it comes to getting starts.

  7. #27
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    Seth, my brother, when has Ryan ever supplemented the roster with a legit MLB player? Signing one legit pitcher this year helps them this year and next year and the year after. Signing a legit pitcher does not atop you from drafting well. The only reason not to do so is to increase profits. So, how is signing one legit player bad for this team? If money does not matter, why d id they need a new stadium at all? Clearly they believe money matters, or they would not have begged the taxpayers for a new stadium.

  8. #28
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Seth, my brother, when has Ryan ever supplemented the roster with a legit MLB player?
    To be fair to Ryan, he did pretty well last offseason by signing Doumit, Willingham, and to a lesser extent, Carroll.

    Not that I'm defending this offseason.

  9. #29
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    None of those were adds, he let guys walk and backfilled.....when has he had a mediocre player on the roster, and just upgraded the position?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    None of those were adds, he let guys walk and backfilled.....when has he had a mediocre player on the roster, and just upgraded the position?
    Yeah, pretty much what I said on anotehr thread just a bit ago. I wrote: 'yeah they got Willingham, Doumit and Carroll, and saved some money...but they lost Nathan, Cuddy and Kubel...and did nothing with the saved money. Let's not act as if they added onto the 2011 team without losing some key players....'

    So I agree 100%

  11. #31
    Super Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    I don't think there's a "right way" to win baseball games, other than having better baseball players than the competition. If there's a "right way" then ignoring one way to acquire those better players--as the Twins have done for decades by refusing to participate in free agency except at the fringes--certainly could be termed the "wrong way." If the Twins skipped the first three rounds of the draft every year--"too expensive, and no guarantee!"--people would be up in arms. But somehow it's ok they skip the "first three rounds" of free agency year after year. Why?

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    I don't think there's a "right way" to win baseball games, other than having better baseball players than the competition. If there's a "right way" then ignoring one way to acquire those better players--as the Twins have done for decades by refusing to participate in free agency except at the fringes--certainly could be termed the "wrong way." If the Twins skipped the first three rounds of the draft every year--"too expensive, and no guarantee!"--people would be up in arms. But somehow it's ok they skip the "first three rounds" of free agency year after year. Why?
    That is a good point, though they are less likely to overpay in the draft like they would have to overpay for free agent talent. No surprise they don't pursue Boras clients too often, and risk overpaying.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    None of those were adds, he let guys walk and backfilled.....when has he had a mediocre player on the roster, and just upgraded the position?
    Depends on how you view upgrading. Under Ryan we went from Dougie Baseball to Morneau, AJ to Mauer, Punto to Castillo, Blanco to Redmond, Reed to Silva, Rogers to Santana, Keilty to Stewart. In fairness to Ryan, he has revamped a lot of rosters - we went from a playoff team with a nucleus of Hunter, Koskie, Dougie B to a playoff team with a nucleus of Mauer, Morneau, Santana.

    I'm not trying to make excuses for the payroll. I think the Pohlad's are cheap and are screwing the fans over. We've heard before that the Pohlad's won't spend in down years just to spend but we haven't really seen a commitment to spend in up years. That said, I also think Ryan is capable of building a contending team again, even with the Pohlad payroll BS. I think the Twins could have added 20m to payroll this year and have created a team that could push for the central if the Tigers stumble but that would have required hitting correctly on a lot of free agents and needing the young arms - Hendriks and Gibson - to be ready. If Ryan had signed Baker, Marcum and Drew, each to the one year deals they signed, that's close to 100m payroll but still a pretty weak team.

    I think what the Twins are doing is probably the right way to go. It's obvious they're rebuilding. They'll most likely move Morneau and Willingham during the season. They'll add a pitcher in the draft to go with a future of Worley, Gibson, May, Berrios and Meyer. Hicks, Gibson and Arcia will all break in this year. But if Plouffe and Parmelee show that they are actually capable of being MLers (not a sure thing at all), then all of a sudden the Twins have a real outfield and a real third baseman and would be surprisingly competitive, Ryan could add salary.

  14. #34
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Doesn't anyone question his numbers? Where does he come up with "Last year, our payroll was north of $100 million and we lost 95 games."? I went back through Jeremy Nygaard's excellent roster payroll list and I just don't get it.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    I don't think there's a "right way" to win baseball games, other than having better baseball players than the competition. If there's a "right way" then ignoring one way to acquire those better players--as the Twins have done for decades by refusing to participate in free agency except at the fringes--certainly could be termed the "wrong way." If the Twins skipped the first three rounds of the draft every year--"too expensive, and no guarantee!"--people would be up in arms. But somehow it's ok they skip the "first three rounds" of free agency year after year. Why?
    They didn't always skip the first 3 rounds but Carl Pohlad had the team adhere to (or remain below) draft slots all the time.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    Doesn't anyone question his numbers? Where does he come up with "Last year, our payroll was north of $100 million and we lost 95 games."? I went back through Jeremy Nygaard's excellent roster payroll list and I just don't get it.
    According to Cot's baseball contracts, the Twins opening day salary was just over 100m last year - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Xc&output=html

  17. #37
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    According to Cot's baseball contracts, the Twins opening day salary was just over 100m last year - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Xc&output=html
    Thanks. Between mis-adding the top part and forgetting the "other obligations", I was really off. And it is all just a reminder of how much some of those bad decisions cost.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Morneau has only one year left and with a solid start to the season suddenly builds trade value has hasn't had the past 12 months, Doumit at least serves a purpose as being a split guy with Mauer while keeping Mauer a bit more healthy, Willingham as discussed in other threads has been shopped before by the Twins, going into 2013 he is the only established major league starting OF on the roster, if Hicks/Benson/Parmelee all prove worthy then trade him, if not wait until you get a good offer like Span and Revere. Carroll has like zero trade value and at this point is blocking no one, other then Dozier potentially catching fire I dont see one legit MI on this roster in 2013 who will step up Florimon, etc all project as util guys as does Dozier at this point. Correia sucks but it is what it is at this point, nobody from the minors is really knocking on the door to get ML innings this year except Gibson (limited IP) and Hendriks, with the rest of the rotation in um...shambles, its not to far fetched to think not a single worthy pitcher will be blocked this year when it comes to getting starts.
    This reads curiously like the club didn't try very hard...or didn't care much to upgrade the obvious areas of deficiency.

    And a $60M payroll team like the Rays put together a major depth upgrade as SS and 2B for peanuts.

  19. #39
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    This reads curiously like the club didn't try very hard...or didn't care much to upgrade the obvious areas of deficiency.

    And a $60M payroll team like the Rays put together a major depth upgrade as SS and 2B for peanuts.
    I'd go with "Upgrade"... Qualified with a "Maybe"... But I can't go along with "Major"

    No one wanted Escobar... He has been passed around like a 1st grader passes along the flu. Johnson wasn't exactly a bidding war.

    I'd say it's more accurate to say that the Blue Jays had a Major upgrade and the Rays picked up the Blue Jays cast off's.
    Last edited by Riverbrian; 02-12-2013 at 03:12 PM.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    I'd go with "Upgrade"... Qualified with a "Maybe"... But I can't go along with "Major"

    No one wanted Escobar... He has been passed around like a 1st grader passes along the flu. Johnson wasn't exactly a bidding war.

    I'd say it's more accurate to say that the Blue Jays had a Major upgrade and the Rays picked up the Blue Jays cast off's.
    The Rays are a team legitimately working on a shoe string budget, and still have Zobrist, Rodriguez and Roberts and replaced Brignac (-0.3 WAR) and Johnson (0.3 WAR) = 0.0 WAR with Escobar (1.8 WAR) and Johnson (0.7 WAR) =2.5 WAR. That's more than a "maybe", closer to "major", perhaps "significant" will suffice?

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