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Thread: ESPN's Schoenfield Twins Offseason Report Card

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by edavis0308 View Post
    I can say with pretty high certainty that the Indians finish at least 5 games ahead of us this year.
    How? Do you have any concept of how really really bad Cleveland was last year? They out performed their pyrec by 4 games and only won 68.
    Last edited by LoganJones; 02-14-2013 at 03:43 PM.

  2. #82
    Senior Member All-Star crarko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganJones View Post
    How?
    Cerrano learns how to hit the curveball.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    LOL this is basically the same as going up to the fat girl at the beach and telling her "you are the most beautiful woman here" while there are solid 718's, 818's and 919's all over the place.

    Listen, I am as big of a homer as they come when they come to the Twins, and I still hold hope that ALL goes right and they compete this year, but the Twins on field talent on paper is pretty weak, they have question marks arguably at the following positions (SP,SP,SP,SP, RP, 1B, 3B,SS,2B, RF, CF)
    I concur. Also better than a fighting chance at having the worst bench in baseball.

    Proof that both the biggest homer and biggest critic of their favorite team are seeing the same data sets and demanding different approaches and levels of acceptance in the velocity-of-urgency and mindset-approach at addressing these glaring deficiencies.

  4. #84
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganJones View Post
    How?
    By winning more games?
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsnorth49 View Post
    Yeah, that would have went a long way in being happier, at the very least it would have indicated they were willing to TRY.
    Careful there, you might join us mouthbreathers with that kind of talk

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by crarko View Post
    Cerrano learns how to hit the curveball.
    You no help me hit curveball. Well I say, get allstate, Jobu.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganJones View Post
    How? Do you have any concept of how really really bad Cleveland was last year? They out performed their pyrec by 4 games and only won 68.
    Seeing as how bad we were, and how many more additions they made to their team......you know what, youre right.

  8. #88
    Senior Member All-Star crarko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganJones View Post
    You no help me hit curveball. Well I say, get allstate, Jobu.
    Bats switch to Geico. Bats no longer afraid.

  9. #89
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganJones View Post
    How? Do you have any concept of how really really bad Cleveland was last year? They out performed their pyrec by 4 games and only won 68.
    Cleveland's version of LoganJones just ignored you. Strange how anything but optimism about our team is frowned upon by you, but nothing short of rampant pessimism about another team is shunned.

  10. #90
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Careful there, you might join us mouthbreathers with that kind of talk
    I was cautious not to say they didn't care,I saw how that turned out. Apparently it's a very fine line.

  11. #91
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganJones View Post
    How? Do you have any concept of how really really bad Cleveland was last year? They out performed their pyrec by 4 games and only won 68.
    They sucked and then got better in the offseason. The Royals sucked and then got better in the offseason. The Twins sucked and then got worse in the offseason. That's how.

    Cleveland added a net 8 wins above replacement or so just to their outfield alone, while snaring one of the better pitching prospects in baseball. Shields has a good chance to give the Royals more wins above replacement than the Twins will get from their entire rotation.

    I liked the Revere trade, and respect at least the intent of the Span trade, if not the result. It's a rebuilding year despite Ryan's refusal to admit it publicly, so who cares whether they lose 90 or 100? But I liked the Cerano thing. Time to dig that out for the annual spring training screening.
    Last edited by LaBombo; 02-14-2013 at 05:25 PM.

  12. #92
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    So, give them a grade of B for the future based on something other than the results of the players they got for the future? If they end up dogs, still give them a B?
    Ask any propspect person... There is no such thing as a pitching prospect. Period. Aquiring one is inherantly risky, and like everyone else has stated, no one gives up the best ones because of how valuable they are. Looking at it today, Ryan got a top 50 pitcher and a guy who is border top 100 (and could return to it) out of that surplus. I doubt he would have gotten much better elsewhere.

  13. #93
    Schoenfeld just doesn't get it. Neither do many of the posters here.

    The Twins had BAD pitching last year. When your top pitcher is a rookie and wins only 12 games, it tells me none of the veterans did very well. All of our veteran starters (other than Diamond) from last year are gone. We have new talent coming in. Regardless of who gets picked for the other four starting pitching positions, they will be different from last year. The Twins were not going to go out and sign the top FA pitchers – When have we ever done that? It would be a huge waste of money – even if we could convince them to come here.

    Getting pitchers like Correia, Pelfrey, Worley, Harden and now Perez, among others, is a complete re-vamping of our starting pitching staff.

    One poster listed all of the places where there are question marks. There were fewer question marks two years ago, when the Twins lost 99 games. Question marks bring competition, which helps keep players sharp and on their toes. Yes, it's nice as a player, like Morneau, to know he's starting at 1B. He deserves that. But other than Mauer, Morneau, Doumit and Willingham, no one among our projected position players should be too comfortable. If I were even Parmelee, I'd be looking behind me at all the talent in the minor leagues ready to replace me – Hicks, Arcia, Benson and others. If I were Plouffe, I'd be working like crazy on improving my defense, and being consistent on offense. Dozier, Florimon, Escobar and even Carroll should know they're fighting for a roster spot, if not for a starting position.

    Perhaps I'm naive, but I think the Twins will be much better than Schoenfeld projects. Remember that while others in the AL Central also improved, they'll be playing a lot of games against each other. I think there's more parity in the Central than last year.

    Yes, no one will be fearing the Twins as the season starts. No one feared us last year either, or in 1987 or 1991. Until we see how this team does – as a team - we really won't know what we have.

  14. #94
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    Ryan got a top 50 pitcher and a guy who is border top 100 (and could return to it) out of that surplus. I doubt he would have gotten much better elsewhere.
    The Indians basically got Bauer, Stubbs, and two relievers for a year of Choo and 3 years of a middle reliever. Ryan gave up three years of Span for Meyer, who is by most estimates a lower upside pitcher than Bauer.
    Last edited by LaBombo; 02-14-2013 at 07:07 PM.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    Ask any propspect person... There is no such thing as a pitching prospect. Period. Aquiring one is inherantly risky, and like everyone else has stated, no one gives up the best ones because of how valuable they are. Looking at it today, Ryan got a top 50 pitcher and a guy who is border top 100 (and could return to it) out of that surplus. I doubt he would have gotten much better elsewhere.
    I've always understood the common thought process concerning trading for prospects, especially pitching ones. My point is, it's a complete guess. I personally liked the trades myself, but I'm also keenly aware they could end up busts.

  16. #96
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_the_twins_fan View Post
    Schoenfeld just doesn't get it. Neither do many of the posters here.

    The Twins had BAD pitching last year. When your top pitcher is a rookie and wins only 12 games, it tells me none of the veterans did very well. All of our veteran starters (other than Diamond) from last year are gone. We have new talent coming in. Regardless of who gets picked for the other four starting pitching positions, they will be different from last year. The Twins were not going to go out and sign the top FA pitchers – When have we ever done that? It would be a huge waste of money – even if we could convince them to come here.

    Getting pitchers like Correia, Pelfrey, Worley, Harden and now Perez, among others, is a complete re-vamping of our starting pitching staff.

    One poster listed all of the places where there are question marks. There were fewer question marks two years ago, when the Twins lost 99 games. Question marks bring competition, which helps keep players sharp and on their toes. Yes, it's nice as a player, like Morneau, to know he's starting at 1B. He deserves that. But other than Mauer, Morneau, Doumit and Willingham, no one among our projected position players should be too comfortable. If I were even Parmelee, I'd be looking behind me at all the talent in the minor leagues ready to replace me – Hicks, Arcia, Benson and others. If I were Plouffe, I'd be working like crazy on improving my defense, and being consistent on offense. Dozier, Florimon, Escobar and even Carroll should know they're fighting for a roster spot, if not for a starting position.

    Perhaps I'm naive, but I think the Twins will be much better than Schoenfeld projects. Remember that while others in the AL Central also improved, they'll be playing a lot of games against each other. I think there's more parity in the Central than last year.

    Yes, no one will be fearing the Twins as the season starts. No one feared us last year either, or in 1987 or 1991. Until we see how this team does – as a team - we really won't know what we have.
    Nobody was seriously thinking we would be going to go after the top free agent pitchers, just some of the mid tier guys that would have been a vast improvement over the staff last year. When most of these guys signed for 1 and 2 year deals (one of them our own), how is that a big waste of money?

    It's one thing to revamp your pitching staff, it's quite another to improve it. As far as this year is concerned I don't feel they have done that and if it does it hinges on the fragile health of Harden, the unknown durabilty of Worley and the performance of Pelfrey, I won't even mention Correia. Sorry if that doesn't fill most people with confidence.


    Yes, there were fewer question marks two years ago and the Twins lost 99 games, most of those question marks still remain, especially in the pitching department. What exactly have the Twins done to answer those questions with increased competition? Guys like Correia, Pelfrey and Harden count as competition just because they represent something different and have a pulse? You're absolutely right in stating that a number of players should not be too comfortable, specifically the MI and realistically 3rd base, but what have the Twins done to prevent that? NOTHING, no competition to try to improve what we already had.

    The talent is coming in the minors, in places, not all of it that soon and we're talking about 2013 anyway.

    I'll go along with the naive part, you're right on that one.

    ........My brother.
    Last edited by twinsnorth49; 02-14-2013 at 08:04 PM.

  17. #97
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Twins Twerp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsnorth49 View Post

    ........My brother.

    Nice my brother. This thing is catching on. Remember two years ago when everyone was talking about Tsyoshi. People had mixed feelings about him, but I don't think anyone could have seen him been as bad as he was. There is nothing to compare him to because he is the thing you use when using similes (like or as, thanks Mr. Steiner 9th grade English). Expectations were so high that year. Now, we know we are going to be horrible...mind as well get better for the next year instead of trying to be a middle of the road team for the next decade.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganJones View Post
    LOL this is the same as going to read something and failing to comprehed. I am saying that the Twins are just as talented as the 3 other relatively talent-free teams that will fight for the AL central basement. Obviously ther are all sorts of good teams in baseball, just not in the AL central.
    The Indians and Royals made significant upgrades to their MLB talent this off season. The White Sox stood still, but so did the Twins. All three clubs were more talented and more competitve than the Twins last year, how could the Twins possibly have pulled even with them?

    It's a game made largely of chance so anything could happen, but there is no doubt that the Twins are the least talented team in the AL Central. Least talented pitching staff, least talented OF, least talented infield. They win at catcher, and we can be generous and say they are only the second worst on defense, but as you have conceded that Detroit is more talented than the Twins, then yes, they are the least talented defense of the remaing four teams too.

  19. #99
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    It's just crazy to me that people can try to state with authority the number of games the Twins will win this year. Everyone's entitled to opinion, but must understand that they're ultimately random guesses.

    No one expected the Twins to win 85 games in 2000. No one expected them to lose 99 in 2011. No one expected the Orioles to win 93 last year. The Twins might have the worst team in the AL Central on paper (though I think Schoenfield exaggerates their lack of talent quite a bit), but the composition of this roster isn't all that different from some that have won the division before. When you really take a hard look at the players on this roster, is it really that hard to believe the Twins could be respectable if healthy?

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    The Indians basically got Bauer, Stubbs, and two relievers for a year of Choo and 3 years of a middle reliever. Ryan gave up three years of Span for Meyer, who is by most estimates a lower upside pitcher than Bauer.
    They just signed Bourn and got Swisher also. And they signed Brett Meyers.

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