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Thread: Bollinger: Herrmann Hopes to break camp as 3rd catcher

  1. #21
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsnorth49 View Post
    Good lord, get a sense of humour. We're talking about baseball, since when did that equate to growing up?
    I have a fine sense of humor, there is nothing funny in denigrating people. I would love to see Leviathan in the batters box against Drew Butera pitching. I think that could be real funny. The venom spewed forth this winter by people on this site. It is only baseball

  2. #22
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wise One View Post
    I have a fine sense of humor, there is nothing funny in denigrating people. I would love to see Leviathan in the batters box against Drew Butera pitching. I think that could be real funny. The venom spewed forth this winter by people on this site. It is only baseball
    I'm sorry, but this is insanity. If you bring your car into the mechanic and he returns it to you with three wheels, no brakes, and a broken windshield....do you avoid critiquing his performance because you're not a mechanic?

    Where, in my post, where did I denigrate Butera the person? If you feel bad for Butera because of harsh critiques, perhaps you should suggest to him to stop playing a highly public game he's not very good at? At least then your efforts will be both rational and helpful for our favorite team.

  3. #23
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim H View Post
    Actually, in his brief callup Herrmann didn't show that he can hit better than Butera. Still, Herrmann is young and probably needs work on both his offense and defense. I suspect that he will never be more than a big league backup, but it is too early to make that call. I think he needs to be at AAA working on his game. I also think that for the couple of extra hits Herrmann might provide over the 100-150 AB's that Butera will get, well I'd rather have Butera. He is clearly the beter defensive catcher, right now.
    I'm all for having Herrmann start in AAA rather than catch one game a week with the Twins. But the idea that 18 at bats shows anything about a player sounds pretty far-fetched to me. I'd rather trust 1500 minor league AB's that say Herrmann has a good chance to put up an OPS at least 100 points higher than Butera's in the majors.

  4. #24
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post
    Might have something to do with the country they reside in and the amount of winter league ball they played.
    A possibility I acknowledged in my next post. But their winter ball league ended in mid-January. Also, Dozier played a little in the Venezuelan winter league.

    As I said, I don't place much stock in who shows up early, or really any other story from week one of spring training other than injuries. But since the middle infield is basically an open casting call this year, it's a little surprising that they weren't there early to collect some easy brownie points. This has zero meaning to me about their motivation, preparation or anything else.

  5. #25
    Senior Member All-Star YourHouseIsMyHouse's Avatar
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    I think Herrmann could potentially be more valuable than Doumit at home plate. At least I hope so. The one article posted here about Doumit's squeeze costing us 20 runs really affected my view on him. Is Herrmann much better behind the plate? I doubt he's a significant upgrade, but I hope it's the other way around. Both SHOULD be able to produce with the bat, but I do like the Doumit can switch hit.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    I'm sorry, but this is insanity. If you bring your car into the mechanic and he returns it to you with three wheels, no brakes, and a broken windshield....do you avoid critiquing his performance because you're not a mechanic?

    Where, in my post, where did I denigrate Butera the person? If you feel bad for Butera because of harsh critiques, perhaps you should suggest to him to stop playing a highly public game he's not very good at? At least then your efforts will be both rational and helpful for our favorite team.
    You said he has a scholarship like he doesn't deserve the money he makes. Butera does not decide where he plays. He comes to work and does his job, others decide when and where and thus how much he gets paid. No where have I ever read where there is a problem with his work ethic. If he was the personal catcher for some pitchers then he must have been doing something right.

  7. #27
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    You said he has a scholarship like he doesn't deserve the money he makes. Butera does not decide where he plays. He comes to work and does his job, others decide when and where and thus how much he gets paid. No where have I ever read where there is a problem with his work ethic. If he was the personal catcher for some pitchers then he must have been doing something right.
    The scholarship reference has been used for over a year on BYTO and TD. It's in reference to roster spots as the Twins stated that there would be no more "scholarships" and roster spots would need to be earned. Though I'd also argue that Butera isn't earning his pay either, hard to do that when you are historically inept at what you do.

    An MLB bench should be versatile and capable. Butera is half capable at best, whereas at least Hermann is versatile and (in all likelihood) a more capable all around player.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    The scholarship reference has been used for over a year on BYTO and TD. It's in reference to roster spots as the Twins stated that there would be no more "scholarships" and roster spots would need to be earned. Though I'd also argue that Butera isn't earning his pay either, hard to do that when you are historically inept at what you do.

    An MLB bench should be versatile and capable. Butera is half capable at best, whereas at least Hermann is versatile and (in all likelihood) a more capable all around player.
    I don't give a rat's ass when the term scholarship was first used. The point it it is used in regards to Butera. Doesn't change facts Butera is a poor hitter and he has a roster spot. . He has been a poor hitter his whole career. Whoever makes the decisions on the Twins roster knows that. Butera has a spot because someone wants three catchers and Butera has earned that spot over other players. When Hermann shows he is better than Butera, Butera will be demoted. Hermann has not shown that at the major league or the AAA level. Butera at least has earned his money. No one criticizes his effort. The lack of effort like Valencia showed is what brought out the scholarship quote.

  9. #29
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    I don't give a rat's ass when the term scholarship was first used.
    Well, perhaps you should so you don't ignorantly reply to posts referencing it. The rest of your post really doesn't warrant a response.

  10. #30
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    The reason to push Herman is that our current third catcher is totally inept at a crucial portion of the game.
    Haha. Well in that case he should have been promoted to Rochester midway through last season. There was no reason not to other than to see Herrmann and Hicks operate 1-2 in the order successfully. Herrmann's time is coming though.

  11. #31
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone here is going to argue that Butera isn't a terrible hitter. He's historically bad.

    That said, I'd still rather have him on the roster than Herrmann. Herrmann isn't ready. One could argue that Butera isn't either, but Herrmann has a chance to be ready if he continues his development, and I see no reason to risk that development, even if it means he ends up as a backup catcher.

    I'll also say this - Butera's defense is valuable. It might be especially valuable for a team that has two starting catchers that can hit but struggle defensively. The pitch framing thing is one aspect, but beyond that, it's nice to have an additional tool in your toolbox that is different than the other tools. There are games where having a defensive specialist might be handy. That raises ta player's value above the statistical correlations upon which we all lean.

  12. #32
    Butera has awesome hair. Maybe that's all it takes to warrant a cather's roster spot?

  13. #33
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    I'll also say this - Butera's defense is valuable. It might be especially valuable for a team that has two starting catchers that can hit but struggle defensively. The pitch framing thing is one aspect, but beyond that, it's nice to have an additional tool in your toolbox that is different than the other tools. There are games where having a defensive specialist might be handy. That raises ta player's value above the statistical correlations upon which we all lean.
    I don't buy this argument. If Carlos Gomez was still here and playing a phenomenal CF then this argument makes sense. His defense makes up for the inadequate play of our corner OFs, but catching - not so much. It's a one man job.

    Hell, petition MLB to let Butera catch and Mauer hit for him for 9 innings and we kill two birds with one stone! But in order for his defense to play, he has to hit and that hurts the team.
    Last edited by TheLeviathan; 02-17-2013 at 04:15 PM.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    I'm sorry, but this is insanity. If you bring your car into the mechanic and he returns it to you with three wheels, no brakes, and a broken windshield....do you avoid critiquing his performance because you're not a mechanic?

    Insanity? The guy said I didn't have a sense of humor. I said what I thought would be funny. I leave you to guess what I think is insane and inane.

    Where, in my post, where did I denigrate Butera the person? If you feel bad for Butera because of harsh critiques, perhaps you should suggest to him to stop playing a highly public game he's not very good at? At least then your efforts will be both rational and helpful for our favorite team.
    Insanity? The guy said I didn't have a sense of humor. I said what I thought would be funny. Nothing more, nothing less. I will leave it up to you to guess what I think is insane and inane.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    I don't think anyone here is going to argue that Butera isn't a terrible hitter. He's historically bad.

    That said, I'd still rather have him on the roster than Herrmann. Herrmann isn't ready. One could argue that Butera isn't either, but Herrmann has a chance to be ready if he continues his development, and I see no reason to risk that development, even if it means he ends up as a backup catcher.

    I'll also say this - Butera's defense is valuable. It might be especially valuable for a team that has two starting catchers that can hit but struggle defensively. The pitch framing thing is one aspect, but beyond that, it's nice to have an additional tool in your toolbox that is different than the other tools. There are games where having a defensive specialist might be handy. That raises ta player's value above the statistical correlations upon which we all lean.
    Glass half full optimism says in 48 AB under the watchful eye of Bruno Butera did well at the plate last year. Statistics whizs will have an argument with you, but one never knows.

  16. #36
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wise One View Post
    Insanity? The guy said I didn't have a sense of humor. I said what I thought would be funny. Nothing more, nothing less. I will leave it up to you to guess what I think is insane and inane.
    Then it appears that "the guy's" assessment was right.

  17. #37
    What a novel idea it would be to carry a third catcher that could play other positions and hit above .186.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by The Wise One View Post
    Good lord, bastardizing people's names as a way to ridicule them. We did that in grade school. We also grew out of it

    Welcome to the internet. The grade school lunch room only wishes it could be so immature.

  19. #39
    Head Moderator MVP glunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wise One View Post
    Insanity? The guy said I didn't have a sense of humor. I said what I thought would be funny. Nothing more, nothing less. I will leave it up to you to guess what I think is insane and inane.
    Please my brothers. You both have valid perspectives about Butera. Let's focus on baseball, not each other.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    I don't buy this argument. If Carlos Gomez was still here and playing a phenomenal CF then this argument makes sense. His defense makes up for the inadequate play of our corner OFs, but catching - not so much. It's a one man job.

    Hell, petition MLB to let Butera catch and Mauer hit for him for 9 innings and we kill two birds with one stone! But in order for his defense to play, he has to hit and that hurts the team.
    There is just a little difference between being the starting centerfielder and third string catcher

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