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Thread: Lots of good reports about Kyle Gibson...

  1. #21
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    I think people need to move past the idea that Gibson is going to start the season pitching in the bullpen, or being limited to four-inning starts, so that he'll be available in September. He'll either open the campaign in the Minnesota rotation or the Rochester rotation and while they might be a little more apt to pull him after 90 pitches instead of 100 his usage will be fairly normal. The Twins want to build up his strength and get him back into a normal starting routine -- that is their goal with him this year.

    Frankly, I'm not sure why people are so obsessed with having him available at the end of the year anyway. They're not going to be playing in October, and regular season results matter as just much in April as September. Considering the club's stated resolve to get off to a better start this season, I'm guessing the Twins would prefer to have him helping them early anyway. I'm sure they're hoping that other options will emerge (Meyer? May?) to replace him late in the year.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Triple-A Teflon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Swanson View Post
    I read that he hit 96 with his fastball too. My hopes are very high right now.
    In a related note, the Twins announced they have become the first MLB team to convert to KPH on their JUGS guns.

  3. #23
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    You must not have watched much Twins baseball last year. Either that or you've already purged it from your memory Men in Black style.
    Actually, I was keeping that very much in mind. The team can't afford to pull an effective Gibson after 4-5 innings the day after Correia goes 2 1/3 and gives up 18 runs.

  4. #24
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
    I think people need to move past the idea that Gibson is going to start the season pitching in the bullpen, or being limited to four-inning starts, so that he'll be available in September. He'll either open the campaign in the Minnesota rotation or the Rochester rotation and while they might be a little more apt to pull him after 90 pitches instead of 100 his usage will be fairly normal. The Twins want to build up his strength and get him back into a normal starting routine -- that is their goal with him this year.

    Frankly, I'm not sure why people are so obsessed with having him available at the end of the year anyway. They're not going to be playing in October, and regular season results matter as just much in April as September. Considering the club's stated resolve to get off to a better start this season, I'm guessing the Twins would prefer to have him helping them early anyway. I'm sure they're hoping that other options will emerge (Meyer? May?) to replace him late in the year.
    I can't speak for everyone but I think there's nearly a zero percent chance Gibson will be available in September. I only advocate 4-5 inning starts in Rochester to build up arm strength and ease him into a season, not to preserve him for September. Plus, limited innings in Rochester hopefully means more innings in Minnesota, all the while keeping his service time down (probably not an issue anyway) and giving him valuable AAA innings (many seem to ignore that Gibson doesn't have much experience in the high minors).

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    I can't speak for everyone but I think there's nearly a zero percent chance Gibson will be available in September. I only advocate 4-5 inning starts in Rochester to build up arm strength and ease him into a season, not to preserve him for September. Plus, limited innings in Rochester hopefully means more innings in Minnesota, all the while keeping his service time down (probably not an issue anyway) and giving him valuable AAA innings (many seem to ignore that Gibson doesn't have much experience in the high minors).
    I just don't see the point of Rochester if he is ready to go. He is 20 months from surgery he doesn't need to be babied at the beginning of the year. Yes he needs to be protected from a big jump in innings over the entire season but worry about that later.

    He has limited innings no need to waste them in AAA. He might have a DL stint or they can get creative in skipping starts or extra rest to extend him through the season. If he is good in spring training let him start with the Twins.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Brad Swanson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teflon View Post
    In a related note, the Twins announced they have become the first MLB team to convert to KPH on their JUGS guns.
    Does this statement insinuate that Gibson only throws 60 MPH? That seems low.
    Works on contingency? No, money down!
    Kevin Slowey was Framed!

  7. #27
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    I would like to see him pitch for the entire season. I am not at all sure what is so crazy about that. This would mean pitching April through September and this can be done while keeping him under 150 innings.

  8. #28
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    (many seem to ignore that Gibson doesn't have much experience in the high minors).
    I don't ignore it. His AAA numbers pre-surgery weren't all that good. He was young, and arguably his ligament was an issue before completely blowing out. But unless he totally stakes a claim to a rotation spot in spring training, I'm fine with letting him do some final polishing in Rochester. That also does the relationship with our farm team some good, an aspect that can not drive all decisions but also can not be ignored.

  9. #29
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    A careful reading of comments from Twins staff makes it pretty clear that they're going with an eye test regarding Gibson, and will limit him if they see signs that it's required. They have not pre-determined an innings limit. However, they have anticipated that Gibson may start to wear down at some point.

    I expect Gibson to start 31 games and pitch over 170 innings, with an ERA of 2.89, winning 16 games and winning ROY honors.

    Kidding.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Twins Twerp's Avatar
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    Start him out for the first month in Rochester. Build up stamina as well as save a year of service. Wait until May to bring him up, that is only a month and we will get another year of service. This is an easy one. If he pitches the way we think he can pitch, an extra month for another year in his prime at a low salary is vital. Who knows if we will be able to or even want to sign him past his arbitration years, he will be 29 years old at the back half of his prime.

  11. #31
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    We are already going to get ALL of Gibson's prime years...he's 25 right now, if the Twins chose to, they can have till he's 30 (even if he heads North right away) won't be able to pitch for anyone else till he's 31.

  12. #32
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    Correct...service years are not an issue.

  13. #33
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    I don't ignore it. His AAA numbers pre-surgery weren't all that good. He was young, and arguably his ligament was an issue before completely blowing out. But unless he totally stakes a claim to a rotation spot in spring training, I'm fine with letting him do some final polishing in Rochester. That also does the relationship with our farm team some good, an aspect that can not drive all decisions but also can not be ignored.
    His peripherals were actually fairly good, though there was a very noticable drop the last few starts before the diagnosis that skewed the stats a bit. I do agree that he could use some time to season. The Twins will end up with an extra year of time too, which certainly won't make them complain.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Correct...service years are not an issue.
    Because no pitchers are good after their 30 year old seasons.

  15. #35
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    We are already going to get ALL of Gibson's prime years...he's 25 right now, if the Twins chose to, they can have till he's 30 (even if he heads North right away) won't be able to pitch for anyone else till he's 31.
    Why is having him, or the option of having him, at age 32 necessarily a bad thing? While players may digress in their thirties, they might still be valuable players, especially if they are arb eligible.

    We'll see what the Twins do, but I don't see how gaining an extra year of player control isn't the best outcome (esp. if they really believe in punting the 2013 season).

  16. #36
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    Why is having him, or the option of having him, at age 32 necessarily a bad thing? While players may digress in their thirties, they might still be valuable players, especially if they are arb eligible.

    We'll see what the Twins do, but I don't see how gaining an extra year of player control isn't the best outcome (esp. if they really believe in punting the 2013 season).
    Yep. This. People seem to believe that just because a player is over 30, an extra year of control is worthless. How does that make sense? It takes all of three weeks in the minors to get that extra year of control. Three friggin' weeks.

    Now, it's certainly not as important to manage Gibson's clock as it is, say, Miguel Sano. No one is arguing that. But to state that service time doesn't matter at all is foolish. Of course it does. Any time you can retain a Major League starter for less money and/or additional years, you're doing something right.

  17. #37
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    We are already going to get ALL of Gibson's prime years...he's 25 right now, if the Twins chose to, they can have till he's 30 (even if he heads North right away) won't be able to pitch for anyone else till he's 31.
    Yeah, it would be really horrible if Tampa had another year of control of James Shields. I mean, what would they do with that?

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Yeah, it would be really horrible if Tampa had another year of control of James Shields. I mean, what would they do with that?
    Tampa got that control by signing an extension well before free agency. Exactly what the Twins should do with Gibson if he is healthy and effective and rendering these service time machinations moot. If he's ready start him with the Twins.

  19. #39
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post
    Tampa got that control by signing an extension well before free agency. Exactly what the Twins should do with Gibson if he is healthy and effective and rendering these service time machinations moot. If he's ready start him with the Twins.
    My point is that some players are still extremely effective into their early 30s. Discounting an age 31 season as worthless is fool-hardy, especially if you're sacrificing it for three weeks of playing time in a lost season for a player who won't be with the team for 162 games.

  20. #40
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    Not worthless, but not worth as much as having him pitch in the majors, so fans do not have to watch AAA starters at MLB prices. That said, if they held him back for three weeks, fine. But when they hold him back for 3 months, that will be an issue.

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