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Thread: Tubby Out

  1. #21
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Jerry Kill LOL

  2. #22
    Senior Member All-Star YourHouseIsMyHouse's Avatar
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    I would say Flip or Howland. I think Howland would be my preference.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggentleben View Post
    He's still using Brewster players. MarQueis Gray was Brewster's big time recruit in his time.

    For what Kill has brought to the program, I'll take last season as he's continuing to build the team. I am extremely happy with what he's brought to the program, especially in the crappy shape it was left.
    I'm pretty sure that this is the story for every coach at UM. Initial excitement and then we just need to wait for him to have his own recruits playing.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kab21 View Post
    I'm pretty sure that this is the story for every coach at UM. Initial excitement and then we just need to wait for him to have his own recruits playing.
    I was excited initially about Brewster's recruiting acumen, but his coaching never took hold. Coach Mason always seemed to have a chip on his shoulder and under-recruited to show how great a coach he was. Coach Wacker was solid, but seemed to lack that killer instinct. Time will show once Kill has the players to fit his system, but he is incredibly well-thought-of within national circles. I was told by one former Ohio State player that he would have been a big fan of Kill being hired there, which says volumes about his respect in the game.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Kill sucks and will never lead them to more then 7 or 8 win years.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Kill sucks and will never lead them to more then 7 or 8 win years.
    Duly noted. Thank you for your well thought-out and pointed argument.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggentleben View Post
    Duly noted. Thank you for your well thought-out and pointed argument.
    Feel free to bump it the year the Gophers finally become relevant in college football.

  8. #28
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    I was excited about Kill, but he lost me with this idea that scheduling 4 cupcakes so that you only need 2 big ten wins to make a meaningless bowl game is somehow an achievement.
    It makes me question how high he's really aiming. Paying UNC to go away is an embarrassment, IMO. They are not even a very good football program, they are a basketball school. I'm not sure I wan't a head coach that is so afraid to play UNC, that he'd rather pay money to NOT play them.
    I'm still going to give him a chance, and I hope he's on to something, rather than ON something, but I'm no longer excited about it like I was when he was hired.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
    I was excited about Kill, but he lost me with this idea that scheduling 4 cupcakes so that you only need 2 big ten wins to make a meaningless bowl game is somehow an achievement.
    It makes me question how high he's really aiming. Paying UNC to go away is an embarrassment, IMO. They are not even a very good football program, they are a basketball school. I'm not sure I wan't a head coach that is so afraid to play UNC, that he'd rather pay money to NOT play them.
    I'm still going to give him a chance, and I hope he's on to something, rather than ON something, but I'm no longer excited about it like I was when he was hired.
    Except that it had nothing to do with UNC. It had to do with scheduling mid-major schools until he felt he had time to build the program to a time of all BCS pre-conference games. I honestly don't have a big problem with that. The person he is and the accountability and attitude he's brought to the program is all I can ask from a coach. I played under a coach way too worried about public perception, and that's when you stop focusing your attention where it should always be - on the field.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggentleben View Post
    Except that it had nothing to do with UNC. It had to do with scheduling mid-major schools until he felt he had time to build the program to a time of all BCS pre-conference games. I honestly don't have a big problem with that. The person he is and the accountability and attitude he's brought to the program is all I can ask from a coach. I played under a coach way too worried about public perception, and that's when you stop focusing your attention where it should always be - on the field.
    But why?
    What is the harm in playing UNC? You might lose? Why is he so afraid to lose a non conference game?
    There is only one answer to that, its that he thinks going 2-6 in the Big 10 and "earning" a meaningless bowl bid is some kind of accomplishment. It's not. It's an embarrassment to college football, IMO, that a team can go 2-6 in their conference and make a bowl game.

    And being a good guy, and being accountable and all that is great, but none of that matters if you don't win.
    He's not a volunteer coach of a PeeWee team, he's being paid millions of dollars.

    Again, I'm going to give him his fair chance. But so far, I've yet to talk to anyone who can give me a single convincing MEASURABLE reason why he's doing a good job.
    I'm not talking about his attitude, or his accountability or anything like that. I'm talking about something on the field, or on the recruiting trail.
    I understand that rating recruits is a murky science at best, but seeing the worst ranked recruiting class back to back years is worrisome.

  11. #31
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
    There is only one answer to that, its that he thinks going 2-6 in the Big 10 and "earning" a meaningless bowl bid is some kind of accomplishment.
    Complete bull. Kill has been advocating for a playoff system for years, and he has said that he will not measure the team by bowl appearances or even bowl victories, so that assumption is way, way off.

    Northern Illinois never got the 5-star recruit either, but he built a program there that won against BCS teams year-in and year-out, including demolishing the Brewster team laden with two top-5 Big Ten recruiting classes.
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggentleben View Post
    Complete bull. Kill has been advocating for a playoff system for years, and he has said that he will not measure the team by bowl appearances or even bowl victories, so that assumption is way, way off.

    Northern Illinois never got the 5-star recruit either, but he built a program there that won against BCS teams year-in and year-out, including demolishing the Brewster team laden with two top-5 Big Ten recruiting classes.
    Then what is the reason?
    If you are going to dismiss my reason as "bull", then at least give your reason.
    What would be the reason to avoid BSC competition in the non conference schedule?

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggentleben View Post
    including demolishing the Brewster team laden with two top-5 Big Ten recruiting classes.
    Beating the Gophers, particularly the Brewster Gophers, should not be listed as a great achievement. I fear that was no small part of how Kill got the job here, not unlike Dan Monson and Gonzaga bouncing the Gophers from the 1999 NCAA tournament.

    Although that pattern would suggest that Tubby's replacement might be... Tim Miles from Nebraska? Although he was just hired a year ago...

  14. #34
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    Cancelling the UNC series, and paying out money to do so, was sad and embarassing, imo. It's not like they are good or anything.....tubby had to go. Any random HS coach could finish in the bottom three in the conference every year.

    The extensions (including the secret one to Borden right before he left) from the last AD were also embarrassing. How about Kill win some games before he gets extended beyond th 5 years still on his deal?
    Lighten up Francis....

  15. #35
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
    Then what is the reason?
    If you are going to dismiss my reason as "bull", then at least give your reason.
    What would be the reason to avoid BSC competition in the non conference schedule?
    To build the team through success in those non-conference games. Yes, he wanted wins in those games, but the goal of that would not be a bowl game. It would be to get the team ready to win.
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggentleben View Post
    To build the team through success in those non-conference games. Yes, he wanted wins in those games, but the goal of that would not be a bowl game. It would be to get the team ready to win.
    How does letting your team beat up on a bunch of scrubs get them ready to win?
    That is like saying you should train a pro boxer by bringing him to a nursing home and letting him beat up elderly women.
    You get better by playing TOUGHER competition, not by playing easier competition. You have it backwards, IMO.

  17. #37
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
    How does letting your team beat up on a bunch of scrubs get them ready to win?
    That is like saying you should train a pro boxer by bringing him to a nursing home and letting him beat up elderly women.
    You get better by playing TOUGHER competition, not by playing easier competition. You have it backwards, IMO.
    You used a perfect analogy - boxers build up slowly as they establish themselves against better and better competition. You don't walk into the early 90s boxing scene and immediately start battling Tyson and Holyfield. You have to earn your way up, bout by bout, until you've shown yourself worthy of the established top competition.
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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggentleben View Post
    You used a perfect analogy - boxers build up slowly as they establish themselves against better and better competition. You don't walk into the early 90s boxing scene and immediately start battling Tyson and Holyfield. You have to earn your way up, bout by bout, until you've shown yourself worthy of the established top competition.
    Uh yeah, but there is a threshold where the opponent is SO weak that it does you no good to beat up on them.
    UNC is hardly Holyfield or Tyson.
    If you can't play a competitive game against UNC, you have no business coaching a Big Ten football team.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
    If you can't play a competitive game against UNC, you have no business coaching a Big Ten football team.
    Exactly. And for $800,000?? I wish that money could be put towards something useful, like my lady's $50,000 student loan debt.

  20. #40
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
    Uh yeah, but there is a threshold where the opponent is SO weak that it does you no good to beat up on them.
    UNC is hardly Holyfield or Tyson.
    If you can't play a competitive game against UNC, you have no business coaching a Big Ten football team.
    You are entitled to your opinion. It's not as if they're scheduling Bemidji State or something, Kill has expressed a desire not to play a single FCS school if possible, but some local schools (North Dakota State, South Dakota State) are scheduled for local draw as much as anything. They're scheduling FBS schools that have every opportunity to play in a BCS bowl game. Same level of competition, but just not a member of a BCS conference. I've been an advocate of the program for well over a decade after ending my playing there, and I can tell you that there has never been a coach that has generated the same good will among alumni and former players/coaches as Kill has. Recruiting class ranks mean very little if you're recruiting to a system. Years ago, a spread team would get ripped for recruiting mid-tier guys and having poor recruiting ranks. Now the systems have turned to favor a spread approach, so those same skillset players are more highly rated, which alters how rankings appear. He's only got one recruit so far for the 2014 class committed, but it's a four-star (via scout.com), top-20 RB and an in-state talent. His 2013 class doesn't have headline guys, but it's deep with 8 3-star guys, including a load of size up front on both sides of the ball. You're on a Twins forum, supporting a team that has lost 60% of its games the last two seasons after being in competition for the top record in the league in 2010, but a coach taking over a complete mess of a program that's won at the same rate is blasted.
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