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Thread: Mauer in Two-Hole

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDog View Post
    Some folks have been and continue to be quite up front and open about their hope for failure for certain people to "prove their point." Others you can find it in nuance and subtext. But there are certainly a fair amount of instances where their honest answer to your question could only be a resounding "No."
    Only because if Correia succeeds it sends the message that dumpster diving for pitchers is OK. Not to mention how rich Pohlad is! With that kind of money behind ownership the Twins should be the Yankees of the mid-west, but NO Hoplad runs his baseball team like an accounting firm.

  2. #42
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    One big bonus to batting Mauer 2nd is that his detractors wouldn't rip him for his pathetic RBI total as much.

  3. #43
    Senior Member All-Star IdahoPilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fairweather View Post
    Only because if Correia succeeds it sends the message that dumpster diving for pitchers is OK. Not to mention how rich Pohlad is! With that kind of money behind ownership the Twins should be the Yankees of the mid-west, but NO Hoplad runs his baseball team like an accounting firm.
    So what are you saying - that the Pohlad's have a moral obligation to lose money for the amusement of the fans?

    I don't understand this idea some have that there should be a correlation between how rich the owner is and how big the payroll should be. For me it's a question of revenue and expenses. You add together combined revenue from all sources (ticket sales, TV money, merchandising, etc), subtract expenses, and come up with a net income or loss. You also allow for a reasonable profit (baseball is, after all, a business, not a charity). Then, and only then, you can talk about whether the amount spent on payroll is appropriate and whether ownership is doing right by the team and the fans.

  4. #44
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    If Mauer were to be the full-time #2 hitter would you people still freakout every time he bunts? That's what I want to know.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbknudson View Post
    So what are you saying - that the Pohlad's have a moral obligation to lose money for the amusement of the fans?

    I don't understand this idea some have that there should be a correlation between how rich the owner is and how big the payroll should be. For me it's a question of revenue and expenses. You add together combined revenue from all sources (ticket sales, TV money, merchandising, etc), subtract expenses, and come up with a net income or loss. You also allow for a reasonable profit (baseball is, after all, a business, not a charity). Then, and only then, you can talk about whether the amount spent on payroll is appropriate and whether ownership is doing right by the team and the fans.
    To me you make your money off other business and spend spend spend to win win win or else sell sell sell to someone with new money who will will will. Mark Cuban comes to mind. If you're not in it to win it your damaging the integrity of the entire sport and all professional sports for that matter. IMO

  6. #46
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    I don't expect the Pohlads to lose money on this franchise. I haven't seen the ML books, but that said, I'd be really hard pressed to believe that spending 100M would put them in the red. I'm glad I don't live in Minneapolis and have to pay taxes for that stadium. I'd be furious. While I didn't see any sure upgrades in the middle infield, there were good pitching options available. That is frustrating.

  7. #47
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    If he's not going to try and buy championships then why did we buy the stupid stadium with no roof that is going to leave 30,000 stupid fans with frostbite in 2 days.

  8. #48
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbknudson View Post
    So what are you saying - that the Pohlad's have a moral obligation to lose money for the amusement of the fans?.
    In fairness, the way this ownership group has talked in the past and even before this season, they appear to believe true fan loyalty gives us a moral obligation to give them our money no matter what the product they choose to field is. They certainly don't care how rich we are when they establish that belief either.

  9. #49
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    This thread is going in 4-5 different directions. Strange.

    We all know that Mauer is a perfect #2 hitter. HE's also a great #3 hitter. If they can find and develop a good #2 hitter, it will just extend the lineup.

    Brian Dozier has always been the definition lf a #2 hitter. Almost as many walks as strikeouts. Line drive hitter. Uses the whole field. Has good speed. Has good bat control... He had a rough showing in his MLB debut last year, but if he's able to get back to playing like he can, getting on base and doing all those things a #2 hitter should do, it will make the Twins lineup that much better.

    The only argument I have for Dozier not hitting #2 at this point would be to let him spend a month hitting 8th just to see if he can get past his 2012 struggles and show he can do those things that the Twins (and I) believe that he can do. In a month, if he does, move him to the 2 spot.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Triple-A raindog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    This thread is going in 4-5 different directions. Strange.

    We all know that Mauer is a perfect #2 hitter. HE's also a great #3 hitter. If they can find and develop a good #2 hitter, it will just extend the lineup.

    Brian Dozier has always been the definition lf a #2 hitter. Almost as many walks as strikeouts. Line drive hitter. Uses the whole field. Has good speed. Has good bat control... He had a rough showing in his MLB debut last year, but if he's able to get back to playing like he can, getting on base and doing all those things a #2 hitter should do, it will make the Twins lineup that much better.

    The only argument I have for Dozier not hitting #2 at this point would be to let him spend a month hitting 8th just to see if he can get past his 2012 struggles and show he can do those things that the Twins (and I) believe that he can do. In a month, if he does, move him to the 2 spot.
    I'm with you there. Dozier has the ability to be a good 2 hitter, but I want to see him prove it in the majors, first.

  11. #51
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Yep. If Dozier can post a .350 OBP, he's a very good two hitter.

    But that's an awfully big "if". Right now, he needs to prove he can hit with as little pressure on him as possible. He's fine in the eight slot for the time being.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    Is there a rule that the #2 guy HAS to bunt and sacrifice?
    Who is our manager again? He just got done describing what he looks for in a number two. He likes doing all that stuff with his number two when they are capable of it...and Mauer, of course, is.
    Last edited by ThePuck; 03-30-2013 at 09:47 AM.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    Is there a rule that the #2 guy HAS to bunt and sacrifice?
    Certainly not in the AL East, where the "unwritten rule" is now that the #2 guy should NOT bunt and sacrifice. For that matter, the AL has only a few disciples left who join Gardy in their neanderthal-ic thinking about the relative value of wasting multiple valuable "outs" at the top of the order each game by placing clearly inferior hitters who, although they might demonstrate the ability to "battle their tails off" and "keep getting after it", should clearly be at the bottom of the order.

  14. #54
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Yep. If Dozier can post a .350 OBP, he's a very good two hitter.
    I'd be perfectly happy with Mauer batting third if we were getting .350 OBP from #2.

    However, the stats on mlb.com show:
    2012 - .321 (thanks, Ben)
    2011 - .289
    2010 - .321
    So, we certainly haven't been getting that level of production.

    With a bit more pop through to the bottom of the lineup, I think it makes even more sense to have Mauer bat second than it does to have Parm/Plouffe bat 8th.

  15. #55
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    and prior to 2010, I'm guessing that OBP was more like 2011.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    This thread is going in 4-5 different directions.
    Well, it's basically my fault. I didn't see a thread for the day's game, I wanted to make a tangential comment that I didn't think was worth a thread of its own, and this thread was already discussing an aspect of the game so I thought it might fit. No intent to threadjack, but mea culpa anyway.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    and prior to 2010, I'm guessing that OBP was more like 2011.
    The 2-hole has never produced a .350 OBP hitting rate in the Gardy era. The closest was in 2006, with an OBP of .349, which happened to be career years for LNP and Castillo. Regarding the AL East's favorite stat in the 2-hole, OPS- that year was also the highest for the Twins for OPS in the 2-hole- a lowly .726. Only 2 other times in 11 years was the OPS greater than .700 (07 & 08).

    Besides that OBP out-year of 2006, the Twins #2-hole OBP has never been above .326 and (maybe not so?) incredibly, 4 times in 11 years the OBP was actually below .300.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay View Post
    I'd be perfectly happy with Mauer batting third if we were getting .350 OBP from #2.

    However, the stats on mlb.com show:
    2012 - .321 (thanks, Ben)
    2011 - .289
    2010 - .321
    So, we certainly haven't been getting that level of production.

    With a bit more pop through to the bottom of the lineup, I think it makes even more sense to have Mauer bat second than it does to have Parm/Plouffe bat 8th.
    Absolutely. As I've stated before, I'd even give Parmelee a chance at #2 if Gardy is so deadset against moving up Mauer, although I noticed today that Mauer has been moved up to #2 and Dozier moved down to #8, so maybe there is hope that Gardy is finally getting it?

  19. #59
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    The 2-hole has never produced a .350 OBP hitting rate in the Gardy era. The closest was in 2006, with an OBP of .349, which happened to be career years for LNP and Castillo. Regarding the AL East's favorite stat in the 2-hole, OPS- that year was also the highest for the Twins for OPS in the 2-hole- a lowly .726. Only 2 other times in 11 years was the OPS greater than .700 (07 & 08).

    Besides that OBP out-year of 2006, the Twins #2-hole OBP has never been above .326 and (maybe not so?) incredibly, 4 times in 11 years the OBP was actually below .300.
    You're not factoring in SPEED!

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    You're not factoring in SPEED!
    (In a loud internet-board voice): "Paging ClearBlueSky....!"

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