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Thread: Rosenthal: Gardy's Job Prospects

  1. #21
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Man, I can't wait for the season to start......


  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Smith View Post
    I've seen fans from other parts of the country down here talking about how good a manager Gardy is, the last a group from St Louis who observed he didn't have much to work with the last couple of years.

    I'm still bitter with how he handled post season with Santana, and for pulling Balfour for Nathan to lose to the Yankees.

    He was down for the minor league games this morning and saw Justin K twice, ground out and line out.
    A helpless rookie Kubel standing in against Rivera is the one that will always stand out to me.

  3. #23
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    Not hindsight whine, maybe you do that. Balfour struck out the Yankees on 9 or 10 pitches. I was screaming for him to come out for the 9th inning until someone got on base. But whatever, Gardy didn't handle it the way I would have.

  4. #24
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    I continue to hope that Mr. Gardenhire and Mr. Ryan have a game plan for Gardenhire's graceful exit from the manager's role after the season. That could be either Gardenhire going to another team as manager (I think it would rejuvenate him) or it could be a different role with the Twins.

    I really wanted this to happen last summer with Gardenhire announcing he was stepping down after the season and allowing for a nice "farewell tour" of the Central.

    But since it didn't happen then, I'll continue to hope it happens this year. I don't want to see it come to a situation where the Twins fire Gardenhire or say they won't renew him -- I'd much rather it be Gardenhire's choice to leave the Twins' manager job. But I also think that a change in manager would be good for this team (and that a new job would be good for Gardenhire).

  5. #25
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    As CMath sort of suggested, there are good reasons to bat Mauer 1st, 2nd or 3rd. I rather like him in the 3rd spot, because he will get more chances to drive in runs and advance runners. Clearly he is good in the 2nd spot as well because of his ability to get on base. A lot depends on who bats 2nd and how they do there. If Dozier and/or Carroll bat 2nd and get on base at good clip, batting Mauer 3rd makes sense to me. The difference between 2 and 3 in the lineup is what, 30 PA's over the whole season? If you increase the runners on base in front of Mauer in the first inning by 30%, by batting him 3rd, that would 48 more baserunners for him to drive in or advance. I think that the advantage of more baserunners total(by batting Mauer 2nd) is somewhat offset by the advantage of having your best hitter get more RBI opportunities.

    Actually, it doesn't really matter to me which spot Mauer is in, because I doubt if the total runs scored would really change much.

  6. #26
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
    Yeah, you haven't read the majority of his posts then.
    At least 95% of them. He's a good soul with an opinion. His biggest problem is his sense of pride over Alex Trebec.

  7. #27
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    I really would not care what happens to Gardenhire (and Andy and Scottie and Vavry) after this season is over and they say their goodbyes, but I know that I will be celebrating

  8. #28
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
    A helpless rookie Kubel standing in against Rivera is the one that will always stand out to me.
    That was a bad one. And leaving Nathan out there for his third inning with a warmed-up Jesse Crain ready was worse. But it's always worth noting that none of that matters if Koskie's drive stays in the park. Point: So many variables. so little time.

    I can give him slack for I know that every decision I've made has been contingent on so much outside of my control. Still, Juan Rincon against Ruben Sierra? After Balfour had been so lights out. Really?
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  9. #29
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    That was a bad one. And leaving Nathan out there for his third inning with a warmed-up Jesse Crain ready was worse. But it's always worth noting that none of that matters if Koskie's drive stays in the park. Point: So many variables. so little time.

    I can give him slack for I know that every decision I've made has been contingent on so much outside of my control. Still, Juan Rincon against Ruben Sierra? After Balfour had been so lights out. Really?
    Ah. the bad bitter memories. I posted in a different forum in those days and remember commenting a day or two before that game that I thought Gardy was a bad manager and needed to go. None of the other posters were Twins fans... and then that game happened.

  10. #30
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    Ah. the bad bitter memories. I posted in a different forum in those days and remember commenting a day or two before that game that I thought Gardy was a bad manager and needed to go. None of the other posters were Twins fans... and then that game happened.
    I was in the stands in right center--seats that were closed during the regular season with a curtain. I remember saying to the guy who bought the tickets that Balfour could go at least one more inning and that there was no way the Yanquis would hit him. But I expected Gardy to go to his formula and pick Rincon (who had been horribly overused in September) and that I didn't like the move. Sure enough, bloop single, walk, and boom. The ball was coming right for us, until it arced down. In right field in the Dome, you could never tell if it was a homer, but the reaction of the crowed was enough to confirm our worst fears. And we walked back to our cars wondering what might have been. Sigh.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  11. #31
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Brad Swanson's Avatar
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    I might be alone here, and possibly too sentimental, but I don't want to see Gardenhire managing another team. I've been critical of him at times, but I generally like him and hope he stays on after 2013.
    Works on contingency? No, money down!
    Kevin Slowey was Framed!

  12. #32
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Physics Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Swanson View Post
    I might be alone here, and possibly too sentimental, but I don't want to see Gardenhire managing another team. I've been critical of him at times, but I generally like him and hope he stays on after 2013.
    I agree if the Twins can make some progress this season. I guess my number one critique this season for Gardy will be how he handles the young guys. That should determine whether he stays since that will be a big part of his job the next few seasons.

  13. #33
    Senior Member All-Star IdahoPilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Cross View Post
    Explain to me what's so great about his track record? A few meaningless division titles in the most mediocre division in baseball? Beating up on the softies in the Central and always playing scared against the big boys out east? Abysmal playoff futility of historic proportions? Robotic managing? Not sending his starter out for the next inning if he's at 95 pitches (no matter how good he's going)? Burning out his bullpen by July? Batting Matt Tolbert 2nd?
    I challenge the concept that a division title is ever meaningless. And I indicated I was not happy with his playoff record, although I think "abysmal playoff futility of historic proportions" is the kind of rhetoric that detracts from your argument rather than supplements it. It led me to disregard the rest of your post.

  14. #34
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Swanson View Post
    I might be alone here, and possibly too sentimental, but I don't want to see Gardenhire managing another team. I've been critical of him at times, but I generally like him and hope he stays on after 2013.
    lol... Maybe not alone... But it can feel like Butch and Sundance at the end of the movie.

  15. #35
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Physics Guy View Post
    I agree if the Twins can make some progress this season. I guess my number one critique this season for Gardy will be how he handles the young guys. That should determine whether he stays since that will be a big part of his job the next few seasons.
    I'll be primarily interested in how the rotation is handled this year. No more plus sixers starting games please... How do they utilize the options? If someone is struggling how are they handled?

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    At least 95% of them. He's a good soul with an opinion. His biggest problem is his sense of pride over Alex Trebec.
    ...and Neil Young...

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    I'll be primarily interested in how the rotation is handled this year. No more plus sixers starting games please... How do they utilize the options? If someone is struggling how are they handled?
    Sorry, but Correia is in the rotation until his arm falls off- remember the fashionably acceptable "new normal" to rally around this year- 4-5 runs allowed over 5-6 innings...yaay!

  18. #38
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    Gardy's quotes even about the simplest of reasons why the Twins lost a meaningless Spring Training game to the Red Sox today (Minnesota Twins: Eduardo Escobar's base-running blunder irritates Gardenhire - TwinCities.com) are, to me, further proof that he can't keep his emotions in check, and that he hasn't learned that discretion is the better part of valor. Say what you want to the players, Gardy, but shut up to the media -- because you can only make things worse by trying to make yourself look good and your players look bad. Again, though I have some respect, I'm looking forward to his replacement sooner than later.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by LastOnePicked View Post
    Gardy's quotes even about the simplest of reasons why the Twins lost a meaningless Spring Training game to the Red Sox today (Minnesota Twins: Eduardo Escobar's base-running blunder irritates Gardenhire - TwinCities.com) are, to me, further proof that he can't keep his emotions in check, and that he hasn't learned that discretion is the better part of valor. Say what you want to the players, Gardy, but shut up to the media -- because you can only make things worse by trying to make yourself look good and your players look bad. Again, though I have some respect, I'm looking forward to his replacement sooner than later.
    That's Gardy...

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    Seems a little premature to start writing his Twins managerial obit before the Twins have played an inning in 2013.

    I have seen signs of humility that were noticeably lacking during the Smith years. Smith seemed to defer to Gardy a lot on roster construction (trading Hardy to make room for Nishioka, e.g.). Ryan does none of that. He's put his stamp on the roster and coaching staff and he expects Gardy to work with his people and innovate. To Gardy's credit, he's said he's willing to try new things. Today's Berardino story is an example of how he's even considering breaking the mold of having the #2 hitter as a slap and sacrifice guy and using a run producer ( Mauer) instead.

    All these are signs of a new and improved Gardy. How much that affects his ability to manage a winner and, therefore, keep his job, is an open question. That's why we play the games.
    All well and good in said article, except this:

    What else (should) a #2 hitter be able to do?

    "Bunt," Gardenhire said. "Get 'em over. Be able to shoot the ball the other way with a man on second. All those things. Basically, handle the bat. That's a No. 2 guy."
    And further proof suggesting the difficulty of teaching the old dog new tricks:

    The old-school baseball man couldn't resist, however, getting in one more dig at the growing influence of "cybermetrics," as he likes to call it.
    "Once we start, I'll make that final decision," Gardenhire says. "I'll sit down with my staff and our stat guy and see what that computer spits out, and then we'll go from there. If it's coughing, then I'll do it my way."
    As Beradino aptly points out (he is an excellent addition to the Twins beat!), the game has evolved and Gardy clearly is still far behind the curve:

    "People say Joe Mauer should hit second or whatever, but do we really want 'Man on second base and Joe Mauer coming up,' and he's shooting it over the other way? I don't know about that. That's not his game. Just hitting is his game, but he could do it."
    Digest that for a second.
    Gardenhire wouldn't really ask a three-time batting champion, who has basically been entrenched as the Twins' No. 3 hitter for the past decade, to take perfectly hittable pitches just so Hicks can have a few cracks at stealing second?
    It sounded like Mauer was diplomatic but reading between the lines, was all for the move. In the meantime, Gardy apparently forgets about the Twins 7-time batting champ who primarily batted 2nd and put up 328/393/429/822 for a career. The only thing Mauer can't (shouldn't) do that Carew could do is bunt. His career 323/405/468/873 speaks for itself, and since there is no logical alternative at #2, it's fairly obvious that putting the guy who OPS'd at all of .275 last year and cracked under the pressure (Dozier) should be at the bottom of the order and the best hitters should all move up one place in the lineup.

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