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Thread: On the Twins, the Yankees and Being Psyched Out

  1. #1
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    On the Twins, the Yankees and Being Psyched Out

    In a story titled "Hunter, Cuddyer admit Twins were psyched out by Yankees," Jon Heyman quotes Torii Hunter relates a 2004 playoff incident as well as just saying that guys were very nervous about playing the Yankees. What do we think?

  2. #2
    Twins Contributor Big-Leaguer Cody Christie's Avatar
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    I think it has been in their head whenever they played the Yankees in recent years. Maybe with some new players on the field this year, it won't be an issue any more. The new crop of Twins might not realize they are suppose to be scared of the hated Yankees. It also doesn't help that the Twins are consistently asked about it in the media. There might not be much of a shot of the Twins making the playoffs this year to face the Yankees so the demons could continue to live on.

  3. #3
    This maybe a little off the point, but I have a problem with this part of the article.
    "Hunter recalled one 2004 ALDS game the Twins lost where they had a runner on third with one out, down a run against the great Yankees closer Mariano Rivera, and Twins manager called on a young righty hitters to bat against Rivera, and Hunter recalled that hitter turning down the pinch-hit assignment.

    "You need a righty hitter against Rivera with his cutter,'' Hunter recalled. But according to Hunter, the player shook his head no. So Gardenhire used another kid, Jason Kubel, a lefthanded hitter, who Hunter recalled getting jammed. "Kubel wasn't afraid, but he's a lefty hitter,'' Hunter said.""

    Looking back at the box scores of the game there were two one run games, and Rivera only got the save in one. In that one game(Game Four) Kubel got a double in the eighth, Rivera pitched in the tenth and eleventh. In two games(Game One and Game Three) Kubel did not even play. The other game(Game Two) Kubel started and did not get a hit, but Rivera pitched in the eighth and ninth, blowing a save. So to shorten up what I'm trying to get at, I can not find an instance by looking at the box scores where the scenario that Torri Hunter said happened could have happened. Am I missing something?



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    I'm not sure who is full of **** more: Hunter or Heyman, both are blowhards. Hunter likes to take shots at anyone whenever he can. Lest he forgets he was a huge reason why we lost the 1. 2002 ALCS and the 2006 ALDS with that super sweet dive against the A's.

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    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Again, a couple of weeks ago, Commnman from The Platoon Advantage has proven that Hunter is clueless and the story isn't accuract at all. (http://www.platoonadvantage.com/2012...ii-hunter.html) If you check out the fun Twitter War between Commnman and Heyman, it's entertaining.

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    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Were they intimidated (or nervous) against the Yankees? Maybe... but they didn't play it. They played them well. Not just that series. But they've given the Yankees a lot of good games. What if Mauer's double down the LF line wouldn't have been inexplicably called foul? What if Joe Nathan wouldn't have had to go out for a third inning? They haven't played intimidated.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Triple-A whydidnt's Avatar
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    I think they have played like they are intimidated, and it all starts with the manager who I think manages extremely tight against the Yankees. The results speak from themselves. No way the Yankees are THAT much better than the Twins, yet their record is incredible. i think that among the major sports baseball is the one that is most mental, and in this case the Twins obviously don't play right against the Yankees. I think most of us that have played baseball, or even softball for any amount of time know how much more difficult it is to hit when you are thinking too much and not just playing the game.

  8. #8
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    I've said before that I think they should send Gardenhire fishing when they play the Yankees.

    I still believe that.

  9. #9
    Instead of tattling maybe Torii should blame himself for not taking charge and punching Lew Ford (Nick Punto) in the face like a true leader.
    Joe Mauer should hit more home runs. JMO.

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    Heyman's piece is ridiculous. He's honestly suggesting that the '03 and '04 Twins were evenly matched with the Yankee teams of those years? Please. Compare the records, rosters, and payrolls. It's not even close. And I find it hard to believe that what happened to them in the playoffs those years would somehow be the heads of an almost completely different roster of guys 5 years later. There were a lot of close games between the teams, and you can't point to a lot of reasons the Yankees won. They had more talent and more experience. The Twins caught some bad breaks (Koskie's double, Cuzzi's foul ball call, Morneau out in '09 and '10) and made some dumb base-running mistakes. But the east coast centric national media loves the storyline of a "Yankee mystique" so powerful that the mere sight of Yankee uniforms has small-market teams like the Twins quivering with fear. So they keep hyping that. But it's silly. Bear in mind Heyman is the guy who thinks Morris should be in the HOF but not Blyleven, so that should tell you a bit about his knowledge level of baseball in general and the Twins in particular.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Triple-A Paul Pleiss's Avatar
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    The Twins might not be scared of the Yankees, but I cant think of anyone I'd want to face less than those bronx bombers when the weather turns cold in October. Additionally, I think one eyed Jack makes a lot of good points, mostly that the Yankees have been better ball clubs than the Twins when they've played in the post-season, missing Morneau in the line-up in 09 and 10 is a tough lump to swallow.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Triple-A Teflon's Avatar
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    I would be ecstatic if the Twins made it to the post season and lost to the Yankees this year.

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    Twins Moderator All-Star ChiTownTwinsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by one_eyed_jack View Post
    Heyman's piece is ridiculous.
    Just this. While I do think there is something in the Twins' heads when it comes to the Yankees, this article was just plain ridiculous.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Here's a blog post from a Yankee fan...

    ...that effectively shoots down Heyman's piece as well.

    http://jamessmythbroadcast.blogspot....ed-out-by.html



    "Was this all because of that famous MYSTIQUE and AURA? Of course not. The Yankees were the better team in each of the four seasons, even holding a better record as a wild card team than the Central-winning Twins in 2010
    ...
    Having said that, there was definitely a Murphy's Law factor in all of these series. The Twins held leads in seven of the 12 games they lost. There were a ton of goofy things that all went the Yankees' way, from baserunning miscues in big spots, to Joe Mauer's double-that-wasn't, to Joe Nathan turning human."

    It's painful to read about the Twins having leads in 7 of the 12 playoff losses to the Yankees, but if they were as psyched out and intimidated as Heyman suggests, they would never have gotten the lead that often in the first place. Heyman has written about the Twins being "psyched out" by the Yankees before, so now he's just molding facts to fit a narrative.

  15. #15
    Member Single-A jlovren's Avatar
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    I think there is a lot of guys on the roster that seem afraid to me in the playoffs. This just confirms it.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Triple-A whydidnt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by one_eyed_jack View Post
    It's painful to read about the Twins having leads in 7 of the 12 playoff losses to the Yankees, but if they were as psyched out and intimidated as Heyman suggests, they would never have gotten the lead that often in the first place. Heyman has written about the Twins being "psyched out" by the Yankees before, so now he's just molding facts to fit a narrative.
    I disagree - when you are psyched out, it's the most critical moments you makes mistakes. Base running errors, Nathan melting down, etc are MENTAL mistakes you make when you feel too much pressure to do the right thing. Since this has spanned more than a generation of players, it's more likely tied to the manager and coaching staff feeling the pressure and as a result the players acting upon the fact the manager just told him not to screw up three times.

    Sure the Yankees had better and more expensive players, but that doesn't explain the TOTAL domination they have shown over the Twins for almost a decade!

  17. #17
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Quote Originally Posted by whydidnt View Post
    Since this has spanned more than a generation of players, it's more likely tied to the manager and coaching staff feeling the pressure and as a result the players acting upon the fact the manager just told him not to screw up three times.
    OK, so it's all about the manager saying the right thing to his players. The fact that the Yankees had a lot more talent, a lot more experience and healthier rosters has nothing to do with it. Check, got it.

  18. #18
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    Looking at the Twins' playoff record since the 2000s, they havent gone far no matter who they play. It may be that the Twins just were the lesser of the two teams in each losing year, and becoming intimidated brings that out in their play. Many others in the thread have defended our losses to New York pointing out that we were simply overmatched--but we played hard and lost in the high pressure and tight situations. In 2006 we lost to an Oakland team that seemed pretty equal to us in talent--in worse fashion than we did to the Yanks two years before with a worse team:
    2006 lost in 3 with the last two games not even close
    2004 lost in 4 with two games going extra innings
    And in the 2002 series win against Oakland we didnt exactly dominate. The deciding game was a one run win with a 9th inning shootout.
    I'd say that the Twins have played well in the playoffs--probably beyond their potential in some cases, and this intimidation business is a way of explaining the losses without admitting the possibility that we were simply just not as good as the other teams--the yankees, or anyone else. Had we drawn another team as often as we have the Yankees, its likely we would have had the same results. The Twins are a great team, and I love them for that alone.

  19. #19
    no real surprise. this team always has been and always will be mentally inept unless they get rid of the fools who run this organization

  20. #20
    END Rick Stelmaszek's REIGN OF TERROR
    Joe Mauer should hit more home runs. JMO.

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